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Author Topic: Mage ability markers in team games  (Read 3770 times)

theasaris

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Mage ability markers in team games
« on: January 06, 2016, 04:37:34 AM »
For team games there is some ambiguity regarding mages' creatures that have received a special ability marker (Pet, Bloodreaper, Eternal Servant, Holy Avenger, Treebond, Veteran). The rules seem to not clearly answer the question what happens when the owning mage dies.

From the Battlegrounds rules:

Quote
Ability Markers:For the purpose of ability markers—such as Pet, Bloodreaper,
Holy Avenger, Undying Servant, or Treebond—the Mage that has that ability (or a
spawnpoint under their control) must be the one who casts the required object in order
to place that ability marker on it. For example, if the Warlock casts Darkfenne Bat, his
Beastmaster ally could not place his Pet token on it. The Beastmaster would have to Summon his
own animal, instead.


Quote
Loss of an Ally: If one of the Mages on your team is destroyed, the game isn’t over
yet! Remove his Mage card and destroy any objects attached to the Mage (such as
equipment or enchantments). All of the other objects he controlled remain in play,
and control of each object is transferred to another Mage on his team. Objects that are
attached to other objects, such as enchantments, stay attached to their current objects,
even though control of the card has changed.

Note that you cannot transfer control of some restricted objects. For example, if the
Warlock on a team dies, his creature Goran, Werewolf Pet is removed from play unless there is
another Warlock on that team who can take control of Goran.

It has been stated elsewhere (if someone can find the original source I'd be thankful), that the ability markers are not objects attached to these creatures but permanently change these creatures.

For the recent team tournament in Bonn I introduced the ruling that any creature with a mage's ability marker is removed from play when its owning mage dies. I would welcome an official ruling on this though. If a Bloodreaper or Treebonded tree should remain in play, how would these creatures function? They should retain there bonuses (Bloodthirsty +2, Innate Life +4, etc.) but have no effect besides that? Or should the creatures just lose those markers? What about Veteran markers?

exid

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 07:23:51 AM »
if all stays on the board, the creature stays and the marker stays.
hence the creature keeps the bonus.

if there is a link (Pet, Treebond, Eternal servant,...), that's different...
the question is: is the link to the caster (the link would be cut) or to the controler (the new controler would be linked now)?

Laddinfance

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 08:30:42 AM »
The way the rules are at the moment, you would keep the "pet". I would keep its marker and bonuses. If you look at the ruling on Mind Control, you can steal control of your opponent's "pet". So this doesn't fall in the realm of something like Goran where it is restricted. Now most markers will be missing out on part of their effects obviously.

Halewijn

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 08:46:38 AM »
So, you can use the pet, but do you gain the +1 melee when in the same zone with it?
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Laddinfance

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 08:50:30 AM »
If the pet is in the same zone as the beastmaster, then it would still get the extra bonus. It's in the supplement.

theasaris

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 09:13:09 AM »
Ok, thank you for the clarification. I'll add this to the tournament rules for the next team event.

Just to be absolutely clear:
Pet - does not receive +1 Melee when in the surviving team partners zone, even in a double Straywood Beastmaster team
Bloodreaper - will not be able to heal the surviving team partner, even in a double Araxian Crown Warlock team
Eternal Servant - cannot be reanimated be the surviving team partner, even in a double Necromancer team
Holy Avenger - surprisingly retains ALL abilities as they only refer to friendly creatures!
Treebond - cannot share damage through lifebond with the surviving team partner, even in a double Druid team
Veterans - keep their markers

Curios offtopic fact: I just realized that in the Battlegrounds rules quote it says "Undying Servant" while the ability is actually called Eternal Servant.

Laddinfance

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 09:15:06 AM »
Good catch on the Eternal Servant. Abilities tend to change names a lot during development, and clearly I was thinkn' of a previous name.

And yes, I would say your conclusions are correct.

exid

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 09:31:11 AM »
Ok, thank you for the clarification. I'll add this to the tournament rules for the next team event.

Just to be absolutely clear:
Pet - does not receive +1 Melee when in the surviving team partners zone, even in a double Straywood Beastmaster team
Bloodreaper - will not be able to heal the surviving team partner, even in a double Araxian Crown Warlock team
Eternal Servant - cannot be reanimated be the surviving team partner, even in a double Necromancer team
Holy Avenger - surprisingly retains ALL abilities as they only refer to friendly creatures!
Treebond - cannot share damage through lifebond with the surviving team partner, even in a double Druid team
Veterans - keep their markers

Curios offtopic fact: I just realized that in the Battlegrounds rules quote it says "Undying Servant" while the ability is actually called Eternal Servant.

thanks for the clarification!
it seems logical to me, but i prefer not to have to decide it during a game!

theasaris

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 10:31:50 AM »
Thanks. :)

Sailor Vulcan

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Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2016, 10:33:22 AM »
Good catch on the Eternal Servant. Abilities tend to change names a lot during development, and clearly I was thinkn' of a previous name.

And yes, I would say your conclusions are correct.

I find it very curious that the ability is called "eternal" servant when the Mage's specialty is death, not life. Necromancers aren't about making things last forever, they want to end things instead and keep them ended, and use those ends to gain power. Death magic is basically a way to control a dead body like a puppet. An eternal servant is not eternal because it is discarded when it's controller has no more use for it.

Now that I think about it, it's very interesting that a Necromancer's abilities make him immune to disease and poison and make it possible for him to keep reviving one of his creatures over and over. Those abilities sound more like stalling, avoiding or subverting death, rather than just making it easier to kill things. The piercing for his eternal servant and the ability to do poison damage to anything that's already poisoned makes sense though.

If you were to call it undying servant, then it would at least fit his flavor better because he specializes in "undead" creatures.

Also, the word "undead" is kind of an oxymoron. Un- is a prefix that means opposite or reverse. The opposite or reverse of dead is alive. "Undead" aren't alive, they're dead things being controlled like puppets. They are still dead. They're not in some other state between life and death, it's impossible to be "between" by definition unless you're in a coma or something. "Undead" creatures are still dead and under someone's or something's control or acting automatically for some reason.

Undeath isn't just impossible, it's a contradiction. Either something is alive or not. If part of it is dead and part of it is alive, that just means that it's either damaged or in a coma.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:37:29 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Laddinfance

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 10:53:14 AM »
And you have a very different view on the necromancer than I do. To each his own.

sIKE

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2016, 11:07:28 AM »
undead - they are not alive and they are not dead, they are ageless and therefor Eternal. I know they teach alot of crital thinking in school but Fantasy realms do require a bit of a leap in imagination not a solid parsing (which your parsing was solid) of the literal English words.
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Kaarin

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 10:16:15 PM »
Treebond - cannot share damage through lifebond with the surviving team partner, even in a double Druid team
Can a single tree have two treebond markers?
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Zuberi

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 10:27:37 PM »
Treebond - cannot share damage through lifebond with the surviving team partner, even in a double Druid team
Can a single tree have two treebond markers?

There is no way for this to possibly happen. Druids are only allowed to place a single Treebond Marker during a game, and you can only place such ability markers on your own objects. As quoted previously:

Quote from: Battleground Rules
Ability Markers:For the purpose of ability markers—such as Pet, Bloodreaper,
Holy Avenger, Undying Servant, or Treebond—the Mage that has that ability (or a
spawnpoint under their control) must be the one who casts the required object in order
to place that ability marker on it. For example, if the Warlock casts Darkfenne Bat, his
Beastmaster ally could not place his Pet token on it. The Beastmaster would have to Summon his
own animal, instead.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 11:43:53 PM by Zuberi »

Kaarin

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Re: Mage ability markers in team games
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 10:38:49 PM »
Sorry, missed that.
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