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Author Topic: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)  (Read 1631 times)

kniknax

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Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« on: March 31, 2016, 07:58:09 AM »
Hello, from the rules it appears that doublestrike means two attacks - but does this include any buffs? For example, if I use Giant Size to add +2 melee, or use a Genies Wish etc - do they get two attack twice using all the dice?

It would appear so from the rule book, but on watching a video he only did that the first time, then used his standard "unbuffed" attack on the second role.

Does anyone know?

Thanks

iNano78

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 08:40:53 AM »
Melee +X bonus, among most others, only apply to the first attack a creature makes.  I'm pretty sure this is clearly stated in the rule book, but I don't have it handy.
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kniknax

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 08:44:01 AM »
The codex just says "This attack may make a second attack against the same target. The additional attack occurs before the counterstrike step of the attack".

This doesn't mention the removal of bonuses. Is there another mention of it I've missed?

If so - designers, please make your codex clearer! Thank you :)

Edit: Have re-read through the entire rules, and can see no mention of Melee+X bonus only applying to the first attack. Maybe this is an Arena only rule?

Edit 2: Have searched the online Arena rule book, and no mention of it in there either, except for specific spells (i.e. Bloodthirsty) only.
Therefore, unless someone can find it I'll presume the second (or more) attack includes all bonuses applied to the first. Which means I totally beat my opponent yesterday with one super charged attacked that critted doublestrike for 20 damage just as they thought they were about to beat me! Tentative Mwhahaha
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 08:54:24 AM by kniknax »

Kaarin

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 09:17:31 AM »
In Academy codex it's written that Melee+X bonus can be applied once per round, so second attack can't benefit from this bonus.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 09:22:47 AM »
Page 24 of the Academy rulebook, the entry for Melee +X states that it only applies to the first melee attack each round.

So you do not get your bonus on the second attack of a doublestrike.

kniknax

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 09:36:30 AM »
Page 24 of the Academy rulebook, the entry for Melee +X states that it only applies to the first melee attack each round.

So you do not get your bonus on the second attack of a doublestrike.

You're not making any friends here.



(Thanks for finding it) :)

Laddinfance

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 09:44:01 AM »
Page 24 of the Academy rulebook, the entry for Melee +X states that it only applies to the first melee attack each round.

So you do not get your bonus on the second attack of a doublestrike.

You're not making any friends here.



(Thanks for finding it) :)

I know, it torments me daily. ;-)

Donovan

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 08:10:18 AM »
Still not 100% clear to me.

When my creature performs a counterstrike, because it was attacked, it has to use its melee attack. So does that count as "the first time this round"?

Does that mean only the 1st counterstrike profits from melee +X? Or do counterstrikes not profit from melee +x at all?

Does that mean when I used melee +x during a counterstrike I cannot use it again during the creature's own action?

For me the problem with Mage Wars language used in the codex is that both the attack and the strikes within the attack are called "attack". So when the rules say "attack" you are never sure if they mean the entire attack or a strike within an attack.
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Puddnhead

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 08:16:57 AM »
Still not 100% clear to me.

When my creature performs a counterstrike, because it was attacked, it has to use its melee attack. So does that count as "the first time this round"?

Does that mean only the 1st counterstrike profits from melee +X? Or do counterstrikes not profit from melee +x at all?

Does that mean when I used melee +x during a counterstrike I cannot use it again during the creature's own action?

For me the problem with Mage Wars language used in the codex is that both the attack and the strikes within the attack are called "attack". So when the rules say "attack" you are never sure if they mean the entire attack or a strike within an attack.

As the entry says it ONLY applies (and MUST apply) to the first time each round that a creature makes a melee attack.  It doesn't matter one iota what kind of attack it is--it's always the FIRST one of the round.
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Zuberi

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 10:33:22 AM »
Quote from: Donovan
For me the problem with Mage Wars language used in the codex is that both the attack and the strikes within the attack are called "attack". So when the rules say "attack" you are never sure if they mean the entire attack or a strike within an attack.

Anytime you see the word "attack" assume it is talking about a strike unless it is immediately followed by the word action, i.e. "attack action".

Normally an attack (strike) and an attack action are synonymous because most attack actions only make a single attack (strike). Whenever the distinction is important, the rules will specify "attack action" to differentiate it from individual attacks (strikes) that may be a part of an attack action. So, again, just assume that every time you see the word "attack" it means a strike within an attack action.

Donovan

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Re: Doublestrike Clarification (Academy)
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 04:20:59 PM »
Quote from: Donovan
For me the problem with Mage Wars language used in the codex is that both the attack and the strikes within the attack are called "attack". So when the rules say "attack" you are never sure if they mean the entire attack or a strike within an attack.

Anytime you see the word "attack" assume it is talking about a strike unless it is immediately followed by the word action, i.e. "attack action".

Normally an attack (strike) and an attack action are synonymous because most attack actions only make a single attack (strike). Whenever the distinction is important, the rules will specify "attack action" to differentiate it from individual attacks (strikes) that may be a part of an attack action. So, again, just assume that every time you see the word "attack" it means a strike within an attack action.

Yeah I know and I'm trying! =;-) But there are sometimes unclear passages in the rules.

I still think the rules would have been clearer if it would have used Attack Action, Attack and Strike everywhere.

Have a look at Arena page 26 - Step 7 additional strikes:

Quote
Some traits, such as Triplestrike, allow the attacker to make additional attacks against the same target. Once the first strike is finished, you get to make these additional strikes.
Each additional strike is resolved, one at a time, following these 4 steps: Roll to Miss, Avoid Attack, Roll Dice, Damage and Effects.
Note: All of these strikes are still part of the same attack action, and the defender will still only get one damage
barrier attack and one counterstrike!
After the final strike is resolved, proceed to Step 8.

This is just chaos to me.

Anyways, in Academy this is not as big a problem.

Still, the Academy rules say:
Quote
In order to attack, you must declare the attack, by stating which of your creatures are attacking and which one of your opponent’s creatures will be the target of that attack (also known as the “defender”). When a Mage attacks, they may be able to choose from several different attacks they can use, and they must announce which attack they are using.
This uses "attack" as the whole action of possibly multiple strikes.
Then in Avoid Attack:
Quote
During this step the defender has an opportunity to use a Defense to avoid the attack. Some creatures have a Defense, represented by a Defense icon on their card. The Defense can only be used against the first attack the defender receives each round, unless it has the “infinity” symbol on it, which means it can be used against every attack.
So what is meant here? Is the entire first attack meant here? So all strikes of the first attack are avoided? Or is this about the first strike of the first attack?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 04:22:47 PM by Donovan »
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