November 25, 2017, 05:19:04 AM

Author Topic: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata  (Read 19630 times)

baronzaltor

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2016, 05:54:24 PM »
Also, Wizard still has the most flexible toolkit.  Priority access to Arcane and no triple cost still gives him the best "jack of all trades" pool to build from.  He just has to be a little more judicious with his budget.

All that really changes is that the Wizard cannot as easily keep cherry picking the meta at any given time to stay with whatever element is best at the moment or coat tail on EVERY mage that comes out with any of the 4 elemental schools.


Kharhaz

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2016, 05:57:36 PM »
I like this idea of different Wizards focused in a different element with maybe unique ability card.  This could help with balance of the Wizards abilities and offer some choice and balance. 

Definitely more drastic than i expected. I'm not sure I agree with getting rid of the other elemental wizards. Sharing a school with another mage does not mean that it will steal that mage's tricks, so to speak. Just as the druid and the beastmaster do not conflict with each other's playstyles. And I've always thought of the wizard as four different mages with their own styles, not one mage with flexibility granted to him by his choice of school. I'm very interested in hearing not only why you guys chose this solution, but why you think that it's the optimal solution out of all other possibilities.

Might there ever be other arcane mages trained in a different elemental school?

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Wizard is dead
I should hope not. I'm pretty sure that's not the intent of these nerfs.

While neat, it is the very problem that has been addressed.

Yesterday the wizard had an incredible advantage in the construction of his spell books. He could focus on one element at a premium and then pay normal rate for the others. It was not the intention for him to be 4 mages; just the wizard.

Today the above state is still true. He receives arcane & air at a premium and all other spells at the normal rate. He is still the mack daddy jack of all trades because he does not have a x3 cost.

What this does now is give the warlord a unique premium in the game now; This now gives Warlocks a unique premium in the game now; Siren will have a unique premium with Druid having a little one step in her pond. A hurl meteor sized burden has been lifted from the design lens. Earth Mage Only no longer means wizard. That's huge and in a very good way!

The old wizard mage ability card even has the air symbol next to his arcane symbol.


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farkas1

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2016, 06:00:20 PM »
yep I totally agree.  Now you guys can focus on designing and expand the arcane school which is already awesome but now offer more unqiuness without upsetting the game balance so much with each new expansion. 

Having worked on every Mage Wars expansion to date, the Wizard has become a larger and larger design constrain while building new mages. This was the cleanest way to limit his constraint, while not impacting the core of his play. This errata is not meant as a direct curb on his power. It is however a way for us to open up design in the future.
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jacksmack

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2016, 06:00:24 PM »
I absolutely agree Sailor. This is such a drastic change, tower is fine in my opioun, but the wizard nerf is over the top in my opioun. Also, isn't the point of the wizard to be a jack of a trades? Do we need a wizard who is limited.

Since when was wizards jack of all trades?


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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 06:00:45 PM »
I like this idea of different Wizards focused in a different element with maybe unique ability card.  This could help with balance of the Wizards abilities and offer some choice and balance. 

Definitely more drastic than i expected. I'm not sure I agree with getting rid of the other elemental wizards. Sharing a school with another mage does not mean that it will steal that mage's tricks, so to speak. Just as the druid and the beastmaster do not conflict with each other's playstyles. And I've always thought of the wizard as four different mages with their own styles, not one mage with flexibility granted to him by his choice of school. I'm very interested in hearing not only why you guys chose this solution, but why you think that it's the optimal solution out of all other possibilities.

Might there ever be other arcane mages trained in a different elemental school?

Quote
Wizard is dead
I should hope not. I'm pretty sure that's not the intent of these nerfs.

While neat, it is the very problem that has been addressed.

Yesterday the wizard had an incredible advantage in the construction of his spell books. He could focus on one element at a premium and then pay normal rate for the others. It was not the intention for him to be 4 mages; just the wizard.

Today the above state is still true. He receives arcane & air at a premium and all other spells at the normal rate. He is still the mack daddy jack of all trades because he does not have a x3 cost.

What this does now is give the warlord a unique premium in the game now; This now gives Warlocks a unique premium in the game now; Siren will have a unique premium with Druid having a little one step in her pond. A hurl meteor sized burden has been lifted from the design lens. Earth Mage Only no longer means wizard. That's huge and in a very good way!

The old wizard mage ability card even has the air symbol next to his arcane symbol.


*Damn you beat me to it Baron*
There are'nt many earth mage only cards, if any.
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Iudicium86

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 06:00:59 PM »
I think the Wizard Card errata is a good direction. Really does open up current mages more and leaves room for future classes. And it's very true that a _____ Wizard could very much take strategies and non-exclusive spells from nearly any other mage that has an elemental training (Warlock's Fire, Warlord's Earth, etc). Good to see that copying another mage will come at a much more reasonable cost.

As for the Tower, I did always think it was a rather OP in more than one detail, but only time will tell if the new method is the right direction.
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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 06:01:18 PM »
I absolutely agree Sailor. This is such a drastic change, tower is fine in my opioun, but the wizard nerf is over the top in my opioun. Also, isn't the point of the wizard to be a jack of a trades? Do we need a wizard who is limited.

Since when was wizards jack of all trades?
That was a misstype.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 06:14:07 PM »

There are'nt many earth mage only cards, if any.

Nope and anytime <insert element> only comes up the wizard is the first under the lens.

For example, an "earth mage only" card can theoretically be designed to specifically nudge the warlord in the right places / further improve on the earth school thematically instead of also being forced to be "warlord / war mage only" to prevent having to try and take into account the wizard having earth and all the combinations that come from that.

As a general rule of thumb: The fewer "mage archetype only" and the more "school only" cards the better.



« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 06:16:31 PM by Kharhaz »

Zuberi

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 06:38:45 PM »
Give it a chance :)
It's just the thing is, I don't think that this change is what anyone was calling for. To my knowledge, no one said, "make wizard limited to only one element."

The main problems with the wizard was his efficiency with spellpoints and ability to cherry pick the card pool, taking the best tricks available unless specifically blocked from it by "X Mage Only" traits. The two most popular suggestions to fix this were actually to give him a weak school to pay triple points for, or to limit his elemental training. AW opted for the latter. It actually has the least impact on him and simultaneously opens up more design space for other mages than the alternative would have. It's a good decision in my opinion.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2016, 06:41:05 PM »
Ok. I overreacted. My fault, I apoligize. I wonder if this means there are no air mages planned?
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farkas1

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2016, 07:50:03 PM »
A while back a one of the designers mentioned a shaman with air school focus. Not sure where the development is on that. 

Ok. I overreacted. My fault, I apoligize. I wonder if this means there are no air mages planned?
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2016, 07:54:21 PM »
I absolutely agree Sailor. This is such a drastic change, tower is fine in my opioun, but the wizard nerf is over the top in my opioun. Also, isn't the point of the wizard to be a jack of a trades? Do we need a wizard who is limited.

That was DEFINITELY NOT the point of the wizard!


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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2016, 08:38:18 PM »
I absolutely agree Sailor. This is such a drastic change, tower is fine in my opioun, but the wizard nerf is over the top in my opioun. Also, isn't the point of the wizard to be a jack of a trades? Do we need a wizard who is limited.

That was DEFINITELY NOT the point of the wizard!


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Again, a mis quote. I did not intend to sound or mean like that.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2016, 09:10:48 PM »
I absolutely agree Sailor. This is such a drastic change, tower is fine in my opioun, but the wizard nerf is over the top in my opioun. Also, isn't the point of the wizard to be a jack of a trades? Do we need a wizard who is limited.

That was DEFINITELY NOT the point of the wizard!


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Keep it calm Sailor. No need to heighten the tension.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2016, 09:21:26 PM »
Give it a chance :)
It's just the thing is, I don't think that this change is what anyone was calling for. To my knowledge, no one said, "make wizard limited to only one element."

The main problems with the wizard was his efficiency with spellpoints and ability to cherry pick the card pool, taking the best tricks available unless specifically blocked from it by "X Mage Only" traits. The two most popular suggestions to fix this were actually to give him a weak school to pay triple points for, or to limit his elemental training. AW opted for the latter. It actually has the least impact on him and simultaneously opens up more design space for other mages than the alternative would have. It's a good decision in my opinion.

^^ This.

Interestingly, I don't think these errata have any impact on my currently built Wizard books.  Well, except that Wizard's Tower doesn't have Spellbind anymore, so I'll want to find room for a few more copies of key attack spells.

No more "could be Water or Earth or Fire because it comes out to the same spell point cost in any of those cases" non-Air Wizard jack-of-all-trades books anymore. This "constraint" might actually make Wizard building more interesting again, and will certainly get Lightning Ring / Circle of Lightning / Gale Force Ring / Staff of Storms in play more often.
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