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Author Topic: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...  (Read 6113 times)

iNano78

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Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« on: July 06, 2016, 02:34:28 PM »
With yesterday's Wizard errata news comes a lot of new design space for future mages.  No longer do the designers have to worry about every new Fire, Water or Earth school spell pushing the Wizard over the edge in terms of power level.  And the female alternate Wizard will most likely follow suit in terms of training.

...

Which means, there are a few creatures who suddenly appear to be homeless, namely the Elementals and the Golems.  Sure, the Warlord can still play Earth Elemental and Iron Golem efficiently, but does he really want to?  Both Warlords and their spawn points and other conjurations care about soldiers, and they also tend to be mana-deprived, so they have little incentive to summon these very expensive (not to mention Slow) non-soldier creatures.

Likewise, Fire Elemental, a longtime promo, is about to be released in the Lost Grimoire v1 set.  And Magma Golem was a popular Fire Wizard spell on OCTGN.  These would have been reasonably strong options for a Fire Wizard once legal in real-life Mage Wars.  And while the Warlocks are still trained in Fire, both Warlocks are reluctant to run them because demons have more synergy with both Warlocks' abilities and are otherwise similarly priced. 

It would be kind of sad if these non-demon Fire-school and non-soldier Earth-school creatures never really see play anymore because there's no longer a mage that wants to use them.  Which got me to thinking...

Perhaps we'll see an "Elementalist" mage in the future after all.  What would an Elementalist look like?  In the past, it seemed a long shot because it appeared it would overlap strongly with the Wizard we already have.  But with the Wizard changing to Arcane + Air training only, it opens up some options that could be exclusive to the Elementalist.  For example, maybe the Elementalist will replace the Wizard as the mage that gets to choose its training from among the minor schools, and/or who is trained in "Elementals" and "Golems" (e.g. creatures and other spells with those subtypes).  I'd imagine he would NOT be trained in Arcane, would have channeling of 9, and more conditional mage abilities (e.g. no built-in ranged attack spell and not as strong of a damage reducer as Voltaric Shield), less powerful (or no) spawn point/familiars, etc.

Here are some ideas:

Trained in a minor (elemental) school of his choice, plus Elementals and Golems. Or has training in Level 1-2 of all minor (elemental) schools, plus Elementals and Golems.  Pays triple for War, including Novice.

32 Life. 0 Armor. 9 Channeling. 120 sbp's.

Master of the Elements: When the Elementalist casts an Elemental spell, reduce its mana cost by the spell's level.

Quick Construct: Once per round, the Elementalist may summon a Golem creature spell as a quick spell.

Obviously there should be at least one Elemental and one Golem for each minor school (e.g. currently need Air and Water Elementals and Golems).  No Spawnpoint for the Elementalist (although s/he has access to Battle Forge, but pays triple for War, so... not an efficient use of sbp's), which means every creature is going to get hard-casted.  Maybe include a reverse Lifelink-like enchantment or eqipment where s/he transfers damage to a friendly Golem or Elemental, since they tend to have lots of hit points and the Elementalist isn't particularly good with Armor.  And s/he needs some ways to buff non-living creatures, since there are few good buffs that don't require living targets, whether these be "Elementalist Only" or have some other ways to discourage use by, for example, the Necromancer. (Perhaps the target needs to be an Elemental or Golem, or something similar to Zombie Frenzy, e.g. All friendly Elementals and Golems lose Slow and gain Fast until the end of the round?)

Other ideas?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 02:39:41 PM by iNano78 »
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Gogolski

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2016, 04:12:18 PM »
Beautiful!

I imagined that the 'wizard-nerf' would be sparking new spellbooks, but I didn't think about new mages!
This only shows that the new errata will juice up the way players think about the game. Lovin' it!

...
and not as strong of a damage reducer as Voltaric Shield
..,
Or make it very strong, but situational AND depending on his ememental creatures.

Elemental shield:

During upkeep, the elementalist chooses an element. This round he gains a "-X [choosen element]" for every level of chosen elemental creature in his zone. He als gains a +X for every level of chosen elemental creature on defense rolls against attacks of the chosen element. It makes him almost invulnurable against an element of his choice, but he has to have elementals (and of course minor elementals) in his zone.

Very strong, but if you kill his buddies or seperate him from his buddies, his very strong ability is diminished or gone...


And I like to quote Sailor Vulcan Boocheck:
The wizard is dead, long live the wizard!

(INano78's elemental is the wizards legacy)

Let the creative juices flow!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 08:03:46 AM by Gogolski »

Gogolski

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2016, 04:14:03 PM »
With my previous suggestion, maybe he shoud pay tripple for mind in stead of war. Deny him the force pushes to call his allies...

:-)

Halewijn

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 02:14:15 AM »
Iron golem is solid for the warlord. Earth elemental is useless for him. Other than that, i like this idea a lot!

I like these ideas, but would add some ability linked to attack spells.

Also, being trained in all the elements would create some of the same balance issues as the wizard. Just think all the siren spells. Probably better to specify hos training more.

Maybe: trained in all elemental attack spells, elemental equipment, elementals and golems. I don't know, but its dangerous to simply give training in 4 schools.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 02:38:16 AM by Halewijn »
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Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 06:17:03 AM »
Beautiful!

I imagined that the 'wizard-nerf' would be sparking new spellbooks, but I didn't think about new mages!
This only shows that the new errata will juice up the way players think about the game. Lovin' it!

...
and not as strong of a damage reducer as Voltaric Shield
..,
Or make it very strong, but situational AND depending on his ememental creatures.

Elemental shield:

During upkeep, the elementalist chooses an element. This round he gains a "-X [choosen element]" for every level of chosen elemental creature in his zone. He als gains a +X for every level of chosen elemental creature on defense rolls against attacks of the chosen element. It makes him almost invulnurable against an element of his choice, but he has to have elementals (and of course minor elementals) in his zone.

Very strong, but if you kill his buddies or seperate him from his buddies, his very strong ability is diminished or gone...


And I like to quote Sailor Vulcal:

The wizard is dead, long live the wizard!

(INano78's elemental is the wizards legacy)

Let the creative juices flow!

That wasn't originally from me one of the other forum members said it.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 06:21:18 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Gogolski

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 08:02:25 AM »
Just checked... It was Boocheck.

I stand corrected. :-)

iNano78

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 09:12:11 AM »
Iron golem is solid for the warlord. Earth elemental is useless for him. Other than that, i like this idea a lot!

I like these ideas, but would add some ability linked to attack spells.

Also, being trained in all the elements would create some of the same balance issues as the wizard. Just think all the siren spells. Probably better to specify hos training more.

Maybe: trained in all elemental attack spells, elemental equipment, elementals and golems. I don't know, but its dangerous to simply give training in 4 schools.

You're probably right.  Although training in ALL elemental attack spells would be way too good, imo.  Even level 1 training in all elemental schools would be very good, as you'd have cheap access to Dissolve/Crumble and Ignite/Combustion some of the new equipment coming with the Warlock, 5+ chestpieces, and Hurl Rock and Flameblast and Acid Ball and Surging Wave and Jetstream, Earth Wall , etc.  Battling him, you'd have to know that he's going to have a counter to pretty much any elemental damage type, and is going to be able to hit you with the damage type that counters you (like Lightning if you're running soldiers/knights, or Flame if you're running plants, or Acid if you're armoring up, or Hydro against your Battle Forge, etc).

A choice of school (like the former Wizard, may he rest in peace) could work well, but there are a lot of water creatures incoming that don't really make a lot of sense for an Elementalist... although he can't give them all the Aquatic bonuses like a Siren can; e.g. no access to Shallow Sea, so maybe it doesn't matter (e.g. if you want to run Merren and Deptonnes, a Siren is a much better choice).  Maybe this is the best option: choose your element, no other school of training, and training in Elementals and Golems, and War costs triple (because he's kind of opposed to machines and isn't charismatic with inspiring soldiers, etc; kind of a hermit who likes the non-living aspects of the natural world, who is interested in dabbling with the incorporeal, likes to plays in the mud, is fascinated with volcanoes, but isn't particularly into furry animals like the Beastmaster or plants like the Druid).

Hmmm... maybe level 1 in all elements is OK after all.  Would make multi-element cards more playable, like Raincloud and Sandstorm. And would open design space for more multi-element zone attacks and such that are level 1 in each of 2 (or more?) elemental schools, which would be cheap for the Elementalist but mildly expensive for other mages (kind of like how Devil's Trident isn't worth playing for anybody but a Warlock, even "back in the old days" when you could be a Fire Wizard).  And if he doesn't have training in a major school and pays triple for War, that might be a big enough drawback - and certainly makes him very different from the other Earth mage = Warlords, even if they both like Iron Golem.
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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2016, 09:21:52 AM »
Devils Trident can deal weak conditions. Weak conditions are poison conditions, therefore they are good for necromancer


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iNano78

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2016, 09:38:21 AM »
Devils Trident can deal weak conditions. Weak conditions are poison conditions, therefore they are good for necromancer


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Is it worth 3 sbp each to run a range 0-1 attack spell card with only a 50% chance to hand out a poison condition?  (I'm genuinely asking; haven't considered it for the Necro) I find the Trident OK when you get other Flame and/or ranged damage bonuses (Fireshaper Ring, Hawkeye), but a Necromancer wouldn't have those and instead gets that 50% chance to deal a direct damage (e.g. if the poison sticks).  And my Necromancer rarely wants to be at range 0-1 of his enemies.

Anyway, my main point was that Devil's Trident didn't really benefit the Fire Wizard because it included a level of out-of-school training (and thus became worse than a Fireball for him).  The same could be done for an Elementalist with level 1 of all elemental schools by having his level 2 attacks be level 1 in each of 2 schools, level 3 could be level 1 in each of 3, etc.  Those spells would get very expensive for mages that aren't trained in 2+ elemental schools but would remain cheap for the Elementalist.

(Like why "nobody" puts Adramelech in a non-Warlock book... unless I'm mistaken there too?)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:40:17 AM by iNano78 »
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Halewijn

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2016, 10:28:06 AM »
I like the way you are reasoning, and I agree.

On a side note: my necros run tridents too. It's the only a tack where he has some training in.
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RomeoXero

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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 12:01:04 PM »
Devils trident deals cripple and burn conditions. Not weaks. Though it is a poison condition, it rolls off relatively quickly so it's not great for a necro
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Re: Maybe an Elementalist in the future after all...
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2016, 12:48:59 PM »
Devils trident deals cripple and burn conditions. Not weaks. Though it is a poison condition, it rolls off relatively quickly so it's not great for a necro

right sorry that's what i meant, cripple. wow im tired lol
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