September 16, 2019, 09:41:23 AM

Author Topic: Does a Tsunami attack walls that it passes through as it moves from zone to zone  (Read 9858 times)

krj

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Yes, a creature can potentially be attacked multiple times by Tsunami. At most, this could hit the same creature 4 times plus end with a bash attack against the Arena walls.

Note, that you get to choose the direction of the Tsunami but NOT the direction of the Push. Pushes are always directly away from the source of the push (in this case probably the Mage) unless otherwise stated. This can make lining up such devastating Tsunami's tricky to do, and really the only way to do the 4 attacks + bash that I previously mentioned is if your Mage was in the starting zone that you targeted, so you'd take some damage as well.

if there are two(or three) optional directions for the push effect, the caster of the spell decides where opponent is pushed?

RomeoXero

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Yes but the direction of a push that's not specifically designated (a la the spell force push) must go directly away from the caster. Since tsunami can't change directions after its been cast the push will always be in the same direction, the direction the tsunami is going.
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Coshade

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If you want a simple way to think about it --> Ignore anything Tsunami says about choosing a direction it is irrelevant to the push effect. Think of the push effect as if it were a jet stream.
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SharkBait

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Yes but the direction of a push that's not specifically designated (a la the spell force push) must go directly away from the caster. Since tsunami can't change directions after its been cast the push will always be in the same direction, the direction the tsunami is going.
This last part here was my original impression too, however the push must always go away from the mage regardless of direction chosen for tsunami
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RomeoXero

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But... tsunami is a 0-1 range spell that persists in the same direction, therefore the wave will always be going in the direction chosen (a la away from the mage), no?
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Gogolski

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The way I interpret "moving away from the caster" is that every subsequent zone the tsunami enters must be one zone further away from the caster.

So if you mage is standing in the lower right corner and casts tsunami in the zone left of him (one zone away), the next zone can be a zone upward as that is two zones away from the caster. (It could have been one more zone to the left too) The next zone the tsunami enters could also go up and and then one to the left (or up). Going to the right would make the tsunami enter a zone closer to the caster and thus "turning back on the caster" in stead of moving away...

I might be wrong, but as long as it moves one zone further away from the caster, it moves away, even if it is not in a straight horizontal or vertical line.

SharkBait

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The tsunami travels in the original chosen direction for the duration of the spell and doesn't have to be away from the mage.  The PUSH always must be away from the mage.
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RomeoXero

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Ok,i think i see what your saying. The tsunami could potentially be started in an adjacent zone, say a zone to the east, but be traveling north. I get ya now
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keejchen

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I have to say something here. We agree that, as written, this is how the spell works. Push is from the mage as origin, because Tsunami does not specify otherwise. Also it doesn't affect walls at all. We can come up with fluff of our own that explains this weird behaviour, and usually I am the first to defend MW when the cards are ambiguous.

But really, I think this is one of those cases where it's ok for AW to come out and say: "Sorry, that was a blunder, we didn't consider that. Here is how it should work."

Am I the only one thinking this?  ???

Of course, I might be wrong, maybe it is as intended, but I have my doubts about it.
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Donovan

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I'm not sure if it is wrong or not.

But I would like it and would find it intuitive, if the push had the spell as its source and therefore would be following the wave direction.

On the other hand, you can achieve the same by cleverly casting the spell.

Same about it's effect on walls. I would like it and would find it intuitive if it would also attack walls.

But hey, it is as it is. It is basically the mage who repeatedly casts the spell, not the spell casting itself.
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Coshade

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I have to say something here. We agree that, as written, this is how the spell works. Push is from the mage as origin, because Tsunami does not specify otherwise. Also it doesn't affect walls at all. We can come up with fluff of our own that explains this weird behaviour, and usually I am the first to defend MW when the cards are ambiguous.

But really, I think this is one of those cases where it's ok for AW to come out and say: "Sorry, that was a blunder, we didn't consider that. Here is how it should work."


I'm not sure why you think AW made a blunder on this. The rulebook specifically says you follow all normal push rules for Tsunami for clarification. This card was discussed A LOT in playtesting.
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Halewijn

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I agree with donovan. Both the pushes and the wall rules are very counterintuitive.
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Tyrnan

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I also agree that it's against intuition.
@Coshade: Could you please explain, why it was decided to make it ruled the way it is and not the intuitive(TM) way?
That is, if you're allowed to do this.
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Donovan

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I can only imagine that the thoughts were like: Well the first time the spell is cast it should be just like a normal attack spell with push. The water builds up in the zone so the 1st push should be like for any attack spell with a push.

But if we do that would it make sense to make the spell effect the source of the next push? There is nothing in the game that does that. So let's see this as the Mage repeatedly casting the spell in the direction of the wave. And so the push is always away from the Mage.

Same for the walls: Zone attacks do not attack walls, so that was clear as well.

The problem is the nice graphic on the card. We all see a Mage conjuring (but it is not a conjuration) a wall of water, which then moves through the arena pushing everything forward until it stops at the other end of the arena.

Although I understand that the decision was taken to re-use existing concepts of pushes, attack spells and zone attacks, I also think there are so many crazy rules in Mage Wars, it would have been cool to add 1 sentence to this Card: "Pushes caused by Tsunami follow the direction in which Tsunami is travelling and its Zone Attacks also attack objects on the zone borders it has crossed."
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Coshade

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I also agree that it's against intuition.
@Coshade: Could you please explain, why it was decided to make it ruled the way it is and not the intuitive(TM) way?
That is, if you're allowed to do this.

If I remember correctly water can be pushed in many directions even though the "main stream" is headed one way. Giving the choice to the aggressing player like with normal push rule seemed more advantageous. Especially when you look at the cost of the spell. If you catch your own creatures in the Tsunami you can essentially eject them from the current (notice the picture doesn't have any sharks floating around). I do however, remember there being a call to make sure it was clarified in the rulebook since it did seem counter-intuitive. Hope this helps!
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