December 17, 2017, 02:06:03 AM

Author Topic: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification  (Read 1881 times)

keejchen

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Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« on: September 13, 2016, 06:18:35 PM »
Enchantment Transfusion (ET)

Hello to all gentlemages out there. I want to talk about a spell that has boggled the minds of both young and old mages. This thread is meant to clarify the limitations and possible interactions (combos) of Enchantment Transfusion. In my local gaming club, every time ET is cast, players start scratching their heads and confusion ensues (even for me!). Hopefully in the future I can link this thread to any new players and they will at least have the option of reading about all the capabilities of this spell in one thread, rather than having to browse the forum for individual rules clarifications, when deciding whether or not to include ET in a book.

There are already many rules threads about ET on the forum. I have skimmed all of them in order to put together this thread. Ideally, I want this to be a discussion thread that anyone can refer to whenever there is a dispute over ET. If you come across this thread looking to settle an ET dispute, and you cannot find your answer here, then I encourage you to reply with your question, so that we may settle the dispute, and I will update this main post with the new answer.

In this thread I aim to be as objective as possible, I will ask the same of any replies, please refrain from using words such as OP or broken. The goal is only to clarify what the spell is capable of in RAW, and we will save the balance discussion for another thread. Such a balance thread could link to this thread as a reference.

So, to start off, I think it easiest to talk about the limitations of ET. I list these first because they will apply to all scenarios listed further below.
  • As an enchantment, ET is a quick, range 0-2 spell and it will take up 2 mana when cast. It may only target creatures.
  • When you reveal ET, you may instantly move any enchantments you control (revealed or hidden) on the same creature, to a different legal target creature within range 0-2, paying mana equal to the level of the revealed enchantment(s) moved and 1 mana per hidden enchantment moved.
  • When revealing ET, Line of sight (LOS) from the Mage to the creature is not required. But there must be LOS, from the creature with ET attached, to the creature receiving the enchantment(s).
  • ET does not ignore the obscured trait.
  • When you move and enchantment with ET, any enchantments attached to the moved enchantment(s) (arcane ward/decoy), are moved with it and preserved.
  • Enchantments moved by ET does not trigger Nullify when attached to the new creature.
  • Enchantments with ”once per round”-abilities (such as Akiro's Favor/Cobra Reflexes) have their own ready markers attached, that move with the enchantment(s) and remain ready/used when moved.
  • Enchantments with dissipate markers will have the same amount of markers when attached to the new creature.
  • And enchantments cannot affect an event that occurred before it was revealed (or before it was moved, in case of ET).
The last limitation is ”when can an enchantment be revealed”. This is clarified in the rulebook on page 18-19: http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Arena.pdf
What is worth noting here, is that enchantment reveals can only occur after a step, action or phase. It can never interrupt an initiated step, action or phase. This is where I feel that mistakes are most commonly made.

Next comes the interesting part. With the above limitations in mind, what can ET actually do? The spell has many utilities. I will list all the interactions that I am aware of and have encountered so far. I encourage anyone to add to this list and correct any misconceptions I may have. Hopefully this will help both you and I to better understanding ET.

Possible ET Interactions and Combos
For easier reference, the interactions will be listed by the phases or steps in which they are relevant to talk about.

ET and the upkeep phase:
Since enchantments can only be revealed after a phase ET can not be revealed when a creature dies from effects applied during the upkeep phase (burn/rot/Ghoul Rot). This means that if you fear losing your ET and other enchantments during the upkeep phase, you should reveal ET after the channeling phase to move and save your enchantment(s).

Revealing ET after a move action to restrict further actions:
Action restricting spells (Enfeeble/Force Hold/Turn to Stone...):
Since ET can be revealed after any action (such as a move), you can use it to move Enfeeble to the acting creature after the first move, to immediately end its turn, or something restraining such as Force Hold to prevent further movement.
Like many other actions, moves are also divided into steps, and if you reveal or ET a restaining effect after the "wall" step of a move, then you can damage the acting creature with the wall it is trying to walk through after which it is held in the zone it was trying to leave.

Revealing ET after a ”roll to miss” step when your opponent is making an attack, to interrupt and counter the attack:
Forced reveal ”counter enchantments” (Block/Reverse Attack...):
If one of these spells are attached to a creature together with ET, and opponent targets a second creature with an attack, you may reveal ET after the ”roll to miss” step for your opponent, to move your ”counter enchantment” to the target, and thus counter the attack. In case of an attack spell, this means that the spell is affected as normal (blocked or reversed) and the opponent loses any mana spent.

Defense enchantments (Force Sword/Force Orb/Cobra Reflexes...):
If one of these spells are attached to a creature together with ET, and opponent targets a second creature with an attack, you may reveal ET after the ”roll to miss” step for your opponent, to move your defense enchantment to the target, and then use the defense against the attack. In case of an attack spell, this means that the spell is affected as normal (avoided) and the opponent loses any mana spent.

Using ET to maximize attack modifiers:
After the "avoid attack" step of an attack, you may reveal ET to move enchantments to the acting creature, giving it melee +X, piercing +X, charge +X, etc. If you do, these bonuses will apply to the attack roll. If you move the enchantments again later in the round, they may be used once more for the same bonuses.
If you, after the first strike of a doublestrike, move any enchantments away with ET and then back to the same creature with another ET, then it may receive the bonuses again on the second attack.
This works with enchantments that penalize attacks as well. (Agony, Deblilitate, Tangleroot).

Revealing ET after a ”paying cost” step when your opponent is casting a spell, to interrupt and counter the spell:
Forced reveal ”counter enchantments” (Nullify/Arcane Ward/Reverse Magic/Jinx/Mind Shield...):
If one of these spells are attached to a creature together with ET, and opponent targets a second creature, you may reveal ET after the ”pay cost” step for your opponent, to move your ”counter enchantment” to the relevant target, and thus counter the spell as normal. This means that the spell is countered, and the opponent loses any mana spent (except in case of Jinx or Arcane Ward which refunds the mana).

Spells that targets one of your enchantments (Dispel/Disperse/Seeking Dispel/Reveal Magic...):
If another enchantment you control is targeted, and you also have ET attached to the creature in question, you may reveal ET after the opponents ”pay cost” step. Thus moving your enchantment before resolving the opponents spell, saving your enchantment from being affected and the opponent loses any mana spent.

Spell that removes many enchantments without targeting enchantments (Purge Magic/Destroy Magic):
As with the example above, you can reveal ET after ”pay costs” to move and save your enchantments and the opponent loses any mana spent. If, however, you reveal ET to counter Destroy Magic, and you move the enchantments to a new creature in the same zone, the enchantment(s) will still be destroyed.

Purify/Remove Curse:
There was a big discussion on Purify some time ago. Laddinface sums it up like this: ”Purify calculates it's cost when it resolves. In this case the X is just there to remind you that the spell could have a variable cost.”
This means that if you move enchantments away with ET after the ”pay cost” step, the opponent will not have to pay anything, though of course the spell is still lost. Remember that enchantments are still destroyed if you hold ET until after the ”resolve spell” step.
Please note that it was clarified that this is only true for purify, not other spells with X cost. However, Remove Curse came out recently, and since the wording is similar, I will assume that they behave alike until it is disputed.

Healing spells and Poison blood:
As with examples above, you can reveal ET after ”pay costs”, but the "resolve spell" step where healing dice are rolled, and in this case move a poisoned blood to the target, thus countering the heal.

Destroyed creatures and ET:
Since ET cannot interrupt an event, it is not possible to reveal ET upon creature death. You must time your ET reveal to the step just before it dies. If for example the creature dies during the upkeep phase, ET cannot be revealed, and all enchantments are destroyed.
If a creature dies from an attack, you can reveal ET after the ”roll dice” step, to move your enchantments before the creature is discarded. Note that enchantments that trigger on destruction (Rise Again) are also moved before the destruction and therefore cannot trigger if they are moved with ET.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 07:36:17 AM by keejchen »

Zuberi

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 07:03:19 PM »
I really like this thread. You've done a remarkable job. I see only a few things that I feel may need corrected or clarified.

1. With the most recent Arena Rules, Move Actions now have steps and you can reveal enchantments after each of these steps. That means you can reveal as late as after the Walls step and still prevent them from successfully moving. A very mean trick if they were trying to go through a wall or suffered any Leaving Zone Effects, but even if it just interrupts their plans it's pretty cool.

2. When an object is destroyed, it is discarded immediately. You can't reveal Enchantment Transfusion on a creature after the damage and effects step if it was destroyed during that step. However, you can reveal after the Roll Dice step, when you see that it's about to be destroyed but haven't actually applied the damage yet.

3. I also feel like mentioning that you can wait longer than after the Declare Attack step to reveal ET and move enchantments that provide Defenses, like Block, Reverse Attack, and Cobra Reflexes. You can reveal these as late as after the Roll to Miss Step (When the attacker rolls for Daze).

keejchen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 07:42:43 PM »
Good points. Of course the timing with the steps is important, and the idea is to show off all the exploits in detail, so I will be changing the post according to your second and third point.

I wasn't entirely sure that the creature died in the damage and effects step, but that's mostly because the rulebook is vague about when it actually happens. I interpreted it as dying after the step.

You will have to redirect me to these new arena rules on movement steps. I am not sure I entirely understand your point. I think I do, but I hope that I don't, because it sounds really silly.

Edit: Ok, I found the movement rule and ofc you are correct. I guess we are interpreting it as "the creature walks into the thorns and takes damage, before then suddenly being pulled back by forcehold (or other restraining effect)". It makes sense in a roundabout way. I will add it in.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 11:11:22 PM by keejchen »

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2016, 05:49:05 AM »
Great overview. Finally we all can understand how this works :)

But one thing I am not so sure about:

Furthermore, if you, after the first strike of a doublestrike, move any enchantments away with ET and then back to the same creature with another ET, then it may receive the bonuses again on the second attack.

This does not sound very realistic to me. A creature can only benefit from Cards like Bear Strength once per attack action. F.e. you can reveal the card for the first strike of an double strike attack or wait for the second strike. But receiving the bonus and then moving the card two times does not allow you to use the bonus once again in the same attack action.
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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2016, 12:13:11 PM »
This post should get pinned. There are a lot of players that are experienced that still do not know all the ways Enchantment Transfusion functions. The most common misconceptions I see is how it interacts with Nullify and Reverse Attack.
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Zuberi

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2016, 03:05:40 PM »
Great overview. Finally we all can understand how this works :)

But one thing I am not so sure about:

Furthermore, if you, after the first strike of a doublestrike, move any enchantments away with ET and then back to the same creature with another ET, then it may receive the bonuses again on the second attack.

This does not sound very realistic to me. A creature can only benefit from Cards like Bear Strength once per attack action. F.e. you can reveal the card for the first strike of an double strike attack or wait for the second strike. But receiving the bonus and then moving the card two times does not allow you to use the bonus once again in the same attack action.

This was answered >>>here<<<. I can definitely understand this being confusing though, so let me try and explain it in a bit more detail.

First, let's establish how Melee +X works. With Melee +X, you must apply the bonus to the first attack you can make with the bonus. That doesn't necessarily limit it to the very first attack of an attack action, just the first attack after having gained the bonus. For example, if you cast Battle Fury on Cervere, The Forest Shadow, you could wait until after the first attack made by that creature and then reveal a Bear Strength to get Melee +2 on the second attack. Dealing 4 dice of damage with the first attack and 6 with the second.

Now, it is also important to note that you can receive multiple instances of Melee +X independent of one another. So, we're going to make our example a little more complicated. I cast Battle Fury on Cervere and then reveal Wolf Fury before making my first attack. Afterwards, I can still reveal Bear Strength for my second attack. Thus dealing 5 dice of damage on the first attack and 6 dice on the second.

The enchantment transfusion trick is similar to that second example. You can only use an instance of Melee +X once per attack action, that's true. However, moving the Bear Strength off and back on with Enchantment Transfusion creates a new time stamp and counts as getting an entirely new instance of Melee +X, the same as if you had gotten an entirely different enchantment that gave Melee +X.

I hope that helps to make it make sense.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 03:09:16 PM by Zuberi »

Donovan

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2016, 06:09:35 PM »
Great summary. Now I'm really worried about ET...  ;D

It should have the trick trait...  8)
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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2016, 02:22:30 AM »
Solid work!
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Kelanen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2016, 03:59:37 AM »
Enchantment Transfusion (ET)

  • Line of sight (LOS) from the Mage to the creatures in question is not required. There must be LOS from the creature with ET to the creature who will receive the enchantment(s) however.

I think that you could more explicitly state that point that this is referring to the reveal part of ET, not the casting part.

keejchen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2016, 09:34:02 PM »
My first Banana then.  :D

Also, well spotted Kelanen, I changed the wording on that point. Do you think its clearer like this?

Kelanen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 05:02:12 AM »
My first Banana then.  :D

Also, well spotted Kelanen, I changed the wording on that point. Do you think its clearer like this?

Much better - and a well deserved banana!

keejchen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 06:17:48 PM »
Since remove curse is now out, I would like someone to confirm my section about how it interacts with transfusion. Is it like purify or different?

Kelanen

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Re: Comprehensive Enchantment Transfusion Clarification
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 06:48:35 AM »
Since remove curse is now out, I would like someone to confirm my section about how it interacts with transfusion. Is it like purify or different?

Sorry, we all somehow seemed to miss this all year!

Remove Curse is templated and worded identically to Purify, so I believe it should interact teh same way.

Ps: You missed the bold off of the Purify/Remove Curse heading.