October 17, 2017, 05:18:30 PM

Author Topic: Alternate Wizard Expansion...  (Read 3757 times)

ClockWork

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2016, 08:18:00 AM »
Rather than making appeals based on honor like the current paladin does, he would make appeals based on justice/vengeance.

An anti-hero? Like Batman, but a holy-roller. Awesome belt in the Batman box set, plus sweet cape and cowl. Trained in level 2 Holy and level 2 Dark magic? Batman throwing stars as weapon with quick attack like the nature boomerang. His sub-class could be detective, and maybe ninja?
Siren is so cool

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2016, 09:03:35 AM »
Rather than making appeals based on honor like the current paladin does, he would make appeals based on justice/vengeance.

An anti-hero? Like Batman, but a holy-roller. Awesome belt in the Batman box set, plus sweet cape and cowl. Trained in level 2 Holy and level 2 Dark magic? Batman throwing stars as weapon with quick attack like the nature boomerang. His sub-class could be detective, and maybe ninja?

I was thinking he would be fine with the same training as current paladin. The dawnbreaker is the god of justice and righteous vengeance after all.


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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2017, 11:26:03 AM »
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2017, 11:41:20 AM »
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.

By the time you finish adding restrictions it won't be the same ability any more. You might as well let him do something very specific as a free action once per round. Or make it use his regular quickcast without giving him an extra one. If he wants another spell action he can summon a spawnpoint or familiar, after all.


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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2017, 04:03:20 PM »
By the time you finish adding restrictions it won't be the same ability any more.
Perhaps. But without any restrictions, I fear it may be "OMGz BORKEN!1!"

You might as well let him do something very specific as a free action once per round. Or make it use his regular quickcast without giving him an extra one. If he wants another spell action he can summon a spawnpoint or familiar, after all.

Not sure I understand what you mean. The ability itself wouldn't grant any additional actions, just allow you to use your quickcast like revealing an enchantment... which would be very powerful.

The ring I suggested would be a way to sacrifice your regular action (potentially after moving, possibly even moving twice via Cheetah Speed) in order to get a second quickcast in order to use the above ability twice in a round. It isn't required for the ability, but just lets you exploit it even more if you want. The ring would need to be priced accordingly: probably 2 or 3 mana, given that it comes with a drawback (e.g. uses your regular main action, so no casting a full-action spell that round, aside from any spawnpoint/familiar you might have).

Or perhaps there might be another equipment: the hourglass itself might take up a weapon/shield slot, and allows you to flip up your quickcast marker after your mage takes an action (e.g. same timing window as Dancing Scimitar's attack). This would have to cost more, though, since it gives you an extra quick action per turn, and a powerful one at that given the proposed mage ability above. And you'd pretty much need either a wand or the Tome (or make a melee attack, or guard, or double-move) in order to get maximum use out of it, since it doesn't let you prepare an extra spell.

By the way, a simple use for this ability is Battle Fury. There have been times (mainly in Domination) where I've quick-casted Battle Fury on a friendly creature, then activated that creature and rolled above average, killing its target with the first swing... which means I completely wasted the 5 mana and quickcast spent on Battle Fury! With this mage ability, you could attack with your creature, then after the "apply damage & effects step", choose to quickcast Battle Fury, then take a second attack with your creature if and only if the first attack wasn't sufficient to kill the target! That's not nearly the most powerful thing this ability could do, but helps demonstrate its flexibility, even if it were restricted to Incantations. Similarly, you could Minor Heal a friendly creature after the roll dice step of an enemy creature targeting it, to prevent its death on demand. So many possibilities!
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Beldin

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2017, 06:36:04 PM »
Not sure I understand what you mean. The ability itself wouldn't grant any additional actions, just allow you to use your quickcast like revealing an enchantment... which would be very powerful.

I read it like that the first time then realised you meant as a 3rd option, not giving a second QC action.
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 12:01:20 PM »
I really want to see a Frost mage! With atack spells like blizzard etc. The effected monsters would gain slow, if they already have slow then the stun condition. Moreover each monster entering the affected terrain would gain slow or roll less atack dices.  Spells that make monsters frozen. Being frozen doesn't necessarily means "stun". Maybe they cannot attack for one round or roll less dices or slow or a combination! However their armor as long as they are "frozen" should be increased! His monsters will be immune to frost damage. He should have equipment to make him immune to frost terrain effects. You can combine frost with water. If a monster had been attacked by a water attack earlier in this round, the frost damage would be greater!

If in the same round a creature has been attacked by a hydro attack, the frost damage will be larger. Terrain with snow, where creatures with no immunity to frost deal less damage. Or maybe become slow.
I really want to see a blizzard attack spell!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 07:31:10 AM by TonyGullotti »

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 10:06:47 AM »
I really want to see a Frost mage! With atack spells like blizzard etc. The effected monsters would gain slow, if they already have slow then the stun condition. Moreover each monster entering the affected terrain would gain slow or roll less atack dices.  Spells that make monsters frozen. Being frozen doesn't necessarily means "stun". Maybe they cannot attack for one round or roll less dices or slow or a combination! However their armor as long as they are "frozen" should be increased! His monsters will be immune to frost damage. He should have equipment to make him immune to frost terrain effects. You can combine frost with water. If a monster had been attacked by a water attack earlier in this round, the frost damage would be greater!

If in the same round a creature has been attacked by a hydro attack, the frost damage will be larger. Terrain with snow, where creatures with no immunity to frost deal less damage. Or maybe become slow.
I really want to see a blizzard attack spell!

Let it snow...let it snow...I can't wait anymore. let it snow... let it snow... dont make us wait no more!
I don't care what they're going to say. Let the frost come soon...
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2017, 10:20:52 AM »
Winter is Coming!
"Eddard Stark" ;)


                           
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Halewijn

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2017, 11:34:31 AM »
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.

As a playtester, I solemnly swear that I will advocate for this. Simply awesome and it would combine so well with mordok's tome!  :D For real, golden suggestion.
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2017, 11:39:28 AM »
I solemnly swear to oppose this to my last breath. ;)
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2017, 12:00:28 PM »
Geesh guys, let's keep the swearing to a minimum please. Think of the children!!
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2017, 12:50:57 PM »
The way you would balance that is probably to have a hefty mana cost tacked onto it. Something like a reverse attack costing 2 to 3 times the normal mana cost would seem appropriate there. There are other ways ofc, but something that powerful needs a powerful price as well. Exact balancing would require plenty of testing, but it could be done.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 12:57:51 PM by Coshade »
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2017, 01:28:55 PM »
I also think it could be done, but I agree that it will need a lot more testing than the average ability. Some ways to nerf it could be:

- wizard pays triple for (non arcane/wind) enchantments
- mana cost of 3(?) when using the ability
- very low life total for the wizard
- Not allowing the ability to be useable the turn after using it
- only allow it for enchantments targeting friendly or enemy creatures
- Allow the opponent to cast something during your freeze time (mages being powerfull enough to warp in the wizard's time freeze)
- discard a card of your choice whenever you use the ability. or multiple cards with a combined level of X
- whenever you use this ability, your mage suffers X direct mental damage
- Whenever you use this ability, your mage receives a daze/stun
- ...

It's very, very, powerful, but there are dozens of ways to nerf it. It would result in a new playstyle and a completely refreshing mage.
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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2017, 03:38:13 AM »
I am with puddnhead.
My impression is, that this would shrink the possible design space, which should never be done in a way that cannot be solved with erratas and having to change a Mages main ability would seem too much.

Take Teleport alone: this would be like a cheap, no-precommitment version of Divine Intervention. If you only want to use this to counter things 3 Mana teleport cost is ok. So to be on par with DI it would have to be 4x the cost.
You could never safely summon a creature with that Wizard less than 3 zones away.

All "destroy X" or "move X" or "stop X from happening" (like making an enemys divine intervention whizzle away buy insta-casting Astral Anchor) would be created with that wizard in mind.

Even with the current card pool it would be way to strong. Future cards will only ever improve the options and hence every new card will strengthen that ability.

And even if one would be able to balance it: It does not create any meaningful decision for the opponent to make, only the constant thread of having everything insta-countered.

The only way I see to fix this would be to say: The Wizard can only cast Spells with the Time-subtype and then have quite expensive and very specialized Time spells.
E.g. put a dissipate token on an enchantment, and this enchantment is disabled until the dissipate token is gone.
Stuff like this.