August 22, 2017, 07:42:24 PM

Author Topic: Alternate Wizard Expansion...  (Read 3354 times)

bigfatchef

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2017, 05:06:24 AM »
I like the idea for that mage would feel and play very different. Mister undoing himself.
It is very powerful indeed, but as mentioned there would be ways to bance things out. My proposals<
- spells used vis timeshift cost 3 times their original mana
- if the mage uses timeshift he gains a stun marker (would lead to decision between timeshift cast or main full action)
- mage is restricted against using spawnpoints

I think the best way to deal with it would be the last two of the proposed since the mage himself has only limited actions. A timeshift teleport is super powerful if being attacked by a buddy, but not if you have to do this every round and are by this blocked against developing your own strategies. It would just delay things in a bad way for the mage.

Halewijn

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2017, 05:28:12 AM »
I think 3x would be to nerf happy. It would probably make most cards too expensive to be worth it. You could only allow enchantments (no teleport) or only allow to target friendly creatures. This would also prevent teleport abuse on the opponent.

I think a stun (+some extra mana cost) would be a good nerf. You would not be able to move, cast creatures and attack spells. You would really have to be sure that it ls worth it.
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MrBubu

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2017, 06:47:06 AM »
The stun idea sounds reasonable, although he could use it to delay, while the wizard tower goes through his aresnal of attack spells and huginn removes all defenses.

Also this leaves me worried about the design space.

Would it be too bad if only certain spells were allowed, which could be designed with this ability in mind?

P.S. I don't think this would be to powerful in terms of "getting away from a buddy attack". Block already does that. It's more like you try to summon Water elemental, get teleported for 3x3=9 Mana and just lost 22 Mana and 6 Spellpoints. I will take that stun anytime in such a situation. put teleport on a Wand and your opponent can never bring out the big guns.

iNano78

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2017, 04:15:49 PM »
I think the easiest way to keep future design space open is to only allow this ability with spells with a new subtype (e.g. "Time"). Perhaps also specify that it cannot be a spell attached to a Wand, making it that you must actually discard an Incantation or Attack spell that you cast this way (and is still compatible with Mordok's Tome, making it a more attractive option for this mage).

It would be cool if it worked with "Metamagic" spells too, for instance to use Reveal Magic this way... but I fear it would be too powerful with Seeking Dispel (which could be used in the instant between when your opponent casts and reveals an enchantment?)/Jynx/Arcane Ward/Enchantment Transfusion/Armor Ward/Nullify/Reverse Magic/Shift Enchantment.... so almost all of them. Reveal Magic is the only spell with subtype "Truesight," so that subtype is fair game I guess.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2017, 05:36:16 PM »
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 05:41:14 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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bigfatchef

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2017, 04:06:31 AM »
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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I agree with training in same schools. But the specializations are very different. Maybe its just how I feel it:

Priest - buddy agro / priestess - long game healing defensive.
Bloodwave - army / dwarf more solo tank buddy
Adramelech curse fire ranged (low health) / ac curse buddy reaper melee
Johktari ranged lair / straywood pet melee with possible swarm on the go

So an alternate wizard should be trained in aracane/air, but he can and should feel and play very different. Timeshifting seems wizardy tricky at fitting into this. No zap and no shield but timeshift and maybe a second little trick makes a huge difference in play

Sailor Vulcan

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Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2017, 05:26:19 AM »
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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I agree with training in same schools. But the specializations are very different. Maybe its just how I feel it:

Priest - buddy agro / priestess - long game healing defensive.
Bloodwave - army / dwarf more solo tank buddy
Adramelech curse fire ranged (low health) / ac curse buddy reaper melee
Johktari ranged lair / straywood pet melee with possible swarm on the go

So an alternate wizard should be trained in aracane/air, but he can and should feel and play very different. Timeshifting seems wizardy tricky at fitting into this. No zap and no shield but timeshift and maybe a second little trick makes a huge difference in play

I said subtypes not general style of play. Every alternate Mage so far *has* specialized in the same *subtypes* of spells as their original counterparts. That is a fact.


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bigfatchef

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2017, 11:16:15 AM »
True. Sorry for reading your post wrong.

Halewijn

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2017, 11:35:31 AM »
Somtimes, new subtypes can be added for a mage making their spellpool larger. The best example being the academy wizard's dissipate spells like shrink/giant size/.. "Time spells" could be something both wizards could use but where the alternative wizard is better suited for.
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iNano78

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2017, 06:25:03 AM »
Just thought of a new ability related to time:

Localized Temporal Anomally: Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

Not sure if it should be limited to enemy creatures, or if it's ok to activate a friendly as well. A friendly creature immediately after your Mage could allow for a 3rd consecutive creature activation if you do this to start a round with initiative. The intent was more to force your opponent to activate his/her creatures in a less than ideal order (and temporarily prevent passing), which is a subtle but important tactical part of Mage Wars.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:29:53 AM by iNano78 »
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iNano78

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2017, 08:34:18 AM »
Just thought of a new ability related to time:

Localized Temporal Anomally: Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

Not sure if it should be limited to enemy creatures, or if it's ok to activate a friendly as well. A friendly creature immediately after your Mage could allow for a 3rd consecutive creature activation if you do this to start a round with initiative. The intent was more to force your opponent to activate his/her creatures in a less than ideal order (and temporarily prevent passing), which is a subtle but important tactical part of Mage Wars.

Not sure how this would work in multi-player, whether teams or free-for-all.  For example, consider 3-player match where"player 1" has initiative and this alt-wizard is "player 2" to act this round. Player 1 activates a creature. Then player 2 activates her alt-wizard, then uses this ability to force player 1 to activate a specific creature (different from the first, of course). Player 1 activates that creature. Now whose turn is it?

To fix this, the wording might have to be:
Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature controlled by either you or the next player in initiative order, and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

This is functionally the same in a 2-player match, prevents you from using it on a "teammate's" creature, and prevents you from completely skipping 1 (or more) players in a free-for-all match, aside from allowing you a double-activation.

If allowing yourself a double-activation is too powerful, the wording would be simplified to:
Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature controlled by the next player in initiative order, and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:45:32 AM by iNano78 »
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MrBubu

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2017, 06:00:22 AM »
I really really like iNano's idea.
It feels like a really subtle ability which can mess up the opponents game in ways that snowball into a victory.
Afraid to see it in the hands of the likes of Charmyna or Keechjen though :D

I would maybe even allow the ability to be used before your own action phase, so you can force your opponent to act twice in a row. There might be very few situations where one would actually want to do that, but it gives more versatility without seeming to strong.

Another Idea in the chronomancer direction: (I am stating it in its bluntest form and then it can be trimmed from there)

When casting a spell or revealing an enchantment, this Mage may decide not to pay any mana. If he does so he receives some marker. During upkeep he has to pay the mana + level of the spell.

Obvious variations would be to only allow reduction by the level and require to add a fixed amount of additional costs.
Also: What happens if he cannot pay?
Lose the game?
Take as much damage as mana is missing and opponent gets that much mana?
All the mana gained is immediately used to pay off the debt and so he cannot cast anything until the debt is paid off?

Gogolski

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2017, 06:00:59 PM »
Another idea:

The AirWizard may cast a zone exclusive arcane or air conjuration in a zone where she already controls a zone exclusive arcane or air conjuration. When she does so, the new conjuration is placed on top of the previous one (temporarily banishing it from the arena). During upkeep, the AirWizard may choose which zone exclusive conjuration will be active during the round and which is/are banished. When a zone exclusive conjuration is destroyed and another (temporarily banished) zone exclusive conjuration is underneath that card, it returns to the arena.

This AirWizard should play and feel somewhat different with conjuration builds/combos that define a strategy, but which can be changed into another strategy/build.

Stuff she would probably want:

* Zone exclusive arcane and air conjurations (Right now there is mostly mana-sapping conjurations. She might want some teleportation/movement conjurations, damage conjurations, creature (arcane/air creature only?) buffing/debuffing conjurations??)
===> Teleportal (unique): mage can teleport a creature from anywhere in the arena to this zone for 2 x Lv of the creature.
===> Creature canon: shoots a non-mage (non-restrained and non-unmovable) friendly creature one or two zones away ignoring walls. Creatures shot this way take one or two dice damage.
===> Tesla coils: Two towers that shoot lightning between them and damage everything in every zone (or just one creature/zone) that it crosses. Once per round. Spend mana per zone (or per creature => if you cant spend mana for them all, they don't shoot).
===> Buff/debuff obilisk: giving a trait to ALL creatures in the arena (Like Mordok's obilisk)
===> Buff:debuff spire: giving a trait to friendly/unfriendly/all creatures in this zone (invisible, fly or fast when starting in this zone...)
* A ring or other equipment that grands discounts when casting conjurations (Mana discount equal to the level of the existing conjuration(s)?)
* An incorporeal familiar which can cast only incorporeal conjurations (to suplement her goblin builder)

Stuff to consider:
* Can corporeal conjurations only banish/replace corporeal conjurations (and ditto for incorporeal conjurations)
* Are damage, mana and conditions moved to new zone excluve conjuration when it banishes the previous one? ("repairing" a vital conjuration by casting a 4 mana (minus discount) wardstone on it seems very strong... I'd advise against it.)

Not sure how usefull this would be and how many "AirWizardess Only" cards there would be in this set...

Gogolski

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Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2017, 04:11:30 PM »
Air wizardess abilities:

During upkeep give a corporeal friendly non-mage creature the incorporeal trait untill the end of the round by paying mana equal to it's level.

Once per round give a friendly creature up to 1 zone away the flying trait at the beginning of its action phase untill the end of the phase (round??) by paying mana equal to it's level -1. (=> untill the end of the round should be more expensive, but is very thematic, as she just spirits a creature away...)

Once per round as a quick teleportation spell the air wizardess may swap places with a friendly incorporeal creature by paying mana equal to the creatures level + 1 per zone they are distant of one another.



This mage is an escape artist. She vanishes in thin air presenting a whispy, smokey creature in return. Her creatures become air and difficult to hit or take to the air.

[EDIT]
Staff of storms would be great. Hang back till it gathers a few tokens, close in, hit hard, teleswap with an incorporeal creature.
[/EDIT]
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 04:43:30 PM by Gogolski »