October 18, 2019, 06:59:41 PM

Poll

Which do you think may fix Bloodwave Warlord?

Trained in soldier spells
Can use two-handed equipment with single hand of choice
5-8 points more life
Starting mana bonus like wizard in academy, maybe more than 3 points
Pays 1 less mana, once per turn, on WAR conjurations
Change veteran to first time a soldier deals or receives damage = 2x their level
Bloodwave Warlord gains soldier subtype
Veteran tokens also include Ranged +1
Just throw that card away, keep Art for alternative Anvil WL

Author Topic: Fix Bloodwave Warlord  (Read 8607 times)

ClockWork

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Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« on: November 09, 2016, 11:38:54 PM »
I remember even when he was brand new, BWWL didn't feel that great. I don't know if i like especially because he is an underdog, or if punching dudes in a game about magic makes me feel like a nerd rebel.

I think fixing the hammer from his set could be really great, and also releasing a whole bunch non-novice war equipment.
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Ganpot

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 12:44:25 AM »
I do think the Bloodwave Warlord needs some love, but I don't really like any of these suggestions. 

-Most soldier cards are already in the War school (and those that aren't probably would not be very useful to him anyway). 
-The two-handed weapon change would make him too similar to the Barbarian (one of the next upcoming Mages), who is almost assured to specialize in two-handed weapons and/or dual-wielding. 
-Giving him more life, while effective, is boring and doesn't fix his weak abilities. 
-Same with mana bonus (which I view as not thematic anyway, since mana control is associated with the Arcane school and the Wizard). 
-Paying 1 less mana per turn for war conjurations is the sort of thing which could easily be added as a new ring equipment card effect, but that won't really fix his issues.  It will definitely not help his standing in relation to the other Warlord, since any new cards will buff both versions equally.
-Changing the veterans ability is the most promising idea, but restricting it to 2x a creature's level goes against his swarm philosophy.  Most of the Bloodwave Warlord's thematic creatures have really poor health and minimal armor.  Goblin Grunts have 4 life.  Which means that by the time one manages to actually become a veteran (assuming it is not killed instantly), it will die shortly thereafter before it can actually make use of the benefits. 
-Once again, this is the sort of thing which would probably be handled with the addition of a new equipment card.  I would actually be a fan of this, but at present it wouldn't have a major impact (there aren't that many cards which only effect soldiers) and it wouldn't make him a real competitor to the Anvil Throne Warlord.

Honestly, the only way I see for the Bloodwave Warlord to be properly fixed is for Arcane Wonders to directly errata his card to drastically improve his veterans ability.  Any newly introduced cards will only make both Warlords better by an equal margin, and the Anvil Throne Warlord is already far superior to the Bloodwave one.  While they are at it, they should probably look at the Priest and Johktari Beastmaster as well.  There is little compelling reason to ever play as either of them.  I understand the devs' reluctance to errata cards, but sometimes it really is necessary.  Having 3 mages be all but useless compared to the rest hurts replayability and competitive diversity.

ClockWork

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 03:46:24 AM »
a goblin grunt could deal 2 damage as well to become veteran, deal or receive 2x level damage. Orc butcher only needs to roll 4 damage. Don't think either one of those is too hard to do, even without enchantments or orders.

Also want to point soldiers not in school are awesome, tons of skeletons, tons of holy dudes(KnightofWestlock) tons of stuff from PvsS

The impact of soldier subtype is pretty big, orders plus some incantations, veteran token for himself and armory. Soldier subtype is way big, not way small
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 03:39:32 AM by clockwork »
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Kelanen

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 06:05:29 AM »
I agree it needs work, but I don't favour any of those options. There are other recent threads here on this though.

Super Sorcerer

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 11:01:14 AM »
ב"ה
I agree it should be augmented, but some augmentations by cards came in PvS (the "war mage only" bracers are awsome) and some promos (the bloodwave greatbow), that perhaps we should see if the cards are enough before going to errata. I think errata should be saved as a last resort.
Warlord academy is also probably coming soon, so more cards will be there.

Personally, I would like to see some fast soldiers.

baglio88

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 12:39:33 PM »
Perhaps it has been said before, but I think an easy fix would be adding the Ranged +1 trait to the Veteran ability. It would open up a new niche for a ranged-based mage, and finally the Bloodwave Warlord would be the best at something.

iNano78

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 12:49:44 PM »
I'd go so far as to say that both Warlords could gain the "soldier" subtype without breaking anything. Not only would this significantly help the Bloodwave Warlord, it would help to differentiate the Anvil Throne Warlord from the Paladin.

That would mean that their ability card Command spells work on themselves in addition to other friendly soldier creatures, not to mention that they'd gain benefits from things like Armory and Flank Attack, etc.

Hmmm... Imagine if a future Shaman mage could, for instance, pay 1 mana to gain the "animal" subtype? Or maybe there's a werewolf mage that gains the "animal" type when he has initiative? That would work nicely with the existing Totems and other spells that require an "animal" target.
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Halewijn

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 12:58:27 PM »
Some things would be too strong I think. I think Archer's watchtower and overextend could create crazy combo's. Armory would also become too cheap. Conquer would also become way too easy to use.
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Obsidian Soul

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 04:02:47 PM »
I think that allowing him to passively give +1 Melee/+1 Range to all friendly soldier creatures in the arena would help.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 04:21:11 PM by Obsidian Soul »

Iudicium86

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2016, 12:18:09 AM »
Some time ago I also chimed in another Warlord fixing thread. I believe it's largely his command abilities.

My own main input is that the Battle Orders become free actions. There are plenty of arguments to be made that they take up a precious action, while there are card versions of the commands available, to all mages, at low mana, low points (even novice), and better effects.

Honestly I find myself hardy using a Warlord for his abilities but rather just the strategies and the spells/soldiers available. Only the dwarf Warlord has an ability worth a damn on his card.
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Boocheck

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2016, 03:32:35 AM »
Casting lvl 1 goblin creatures as quick action? That would be nice :)
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Halewijn

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 03:38:28 AM »
Honestly I find myself hardy using a Warlord for his abilities but rather just the strategies and the spells/soldiers available. Only the dwarf Warlord has an ability worth a damn on his card.

Agreed. I use the bloodwave for swarm/conjuration builds since I won't cast a lot of equipment anyway. In that case I prefer the melee +1 over the though -2 and you never know you could have some use out of the veterans. (Although that's mostly wishfull thinking)
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When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

ClockWork

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 03:48:50 AM »
I think an easy fix would be adding the Ranged +1 trait to the Veteran ability

That's rad, so I added it, sorry you didn't get to vote for it.

Personally I would do that, and the veteran token gain change listed. Might be greedy but at least Bloodwave should be a soldier, if not all Warlords. They are Warlords after all. Also if you ask an Orc, "What is your profession?!!" he ain't gonna say baker or poet
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Kelanen

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 03:59:44 AM »
Might be greedy but at least Bloodwave should be a soldier, if not all Warlords. They are Warlords after all. Also if you ask an Orc, "What is your profession?!!" he ain't gonna say baker or poet

Are you then going to make Priest and Priestess Clerics, the Paladin a Knight, and so on...

ClockWork

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Re: Fix Bloodwave Warlord
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 04:36:23 AM »
I am bummed the Paladin isn't a knight, but understand he is pretty strong in general.

If a Priestess or Priest were a cleric, they could turn a full round into 1 mana remotely at the temple, or build up one skull at the Alter of Skulls? Anything else? That don't seem super great. The priest needs all the help he can get.

I would definitely help those mages who need it. Nerfs are ok, but it's better to buff everyone into shiny golden gods, rather then nerf all characters down to lowest common denominator


On yeah, I'd make the Siren aquatic too!!! And Merren!!! 8)
Siren is so cool