May 28, 2020, 10:43:47 PM

Author Topic: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin  (Read 5299 times)

strange90

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Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« on: November 10, 2016, 11:13:27 AM »
Hey there,

just got the new Sirene vs. Paladin Expansion and it's just hilarious!!!!  ;D :D
Played it with my roommate yesterday. During the game, we got to the situation shown in the picture below.

(Griffin 2 zones away from Crocodile.)
So I enchanted Griffin during the 1st Action phase with Chant of Rage, revealed it during Deployment Phase and put a Hate Token on my Crocodile. 2nd Action Phase started.

Now my Question: Must the Griffin attack the Crocodile and therefore use its Fast Trait to move 2 zones to do so?
Or is it possible for the Griffin to only move one field closer to the Crocodile and not attack it? 

I'd be glad about some answers, looking forward to what you guys think! :)

To all who got the expansion already, have fun guys! To all who still think I about buying it...it s damn worth it, buy it! ;)
Greetings strange90



jacksmack

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 01:41:16 PM »
Griffin must move 2 and attack.


Zuberi

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 02:30:01 PM »
Jack is wrong. The rules supplement is quite clear that you are never required to make a mandatory action possible. When you activate the Griffin you check if attacking the hate target is possible. It is not because it's not in range of an attack, and your not required to make it possible by moving into range. Then chant of rage goes to the secondary effect requiring the Griffin to move closer. Moving one zone satisfies this mandatory action so you are not required to do anything beyond that, leaving you with another move and a quick action to do with as you please.

bigfatchef

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 03:59:54 PM »
Jack is wrong. The rules supplement is quite clear that you are never required to make a mandatory action possible. When you activate the Griffin you check if attacking the hate target is possible. It is not because it's not in range of an attack, and your not required to make it possible by moving into range. Then chant of rage goes to the secondary effect requiring the Griffin to move closer. Moving one zone satisfies this mandatory action so you are not required to do anything beyond that, leaving you with another move and a quick action to do with as you please.

So you would never be forced to move a creature 1 or 2 zones AND attack? If you want to force an attack on a creature through chant of rage this would only work in the same zone?
For the griffin that also means he can use his second move to turn around and charge back on the original field and attack there?

Zuberi

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 05:25:18 PM »
Yes, exactly.

strange90

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 05:31:16 PM »
Jack is wrong. The rules supplement is quite clear that you are never required to make a mandatory action possible. When you activate the Griffin you check if attacking the hate target is possible. It is not because it's not in range of an attack, and your not required to make it possible by moving into range. Then chant of rage goes to the secondary effect requiring the Griffin to move closer. Moving one zone satisfies this mandatory action so you are not required to do anything beyond that, leaving you with another move and a quick action to do with as you please.

Good point, but the first sentence about the attack says "during its activation, the enchanted creature must melee attack a creature with a hate token". If it was intended, that the creature can only melee attack creatures with hate tokens in the same zone, they would have added "in the same zone" somewhere right?

Wouldn't that suggest, that you have to check whether or not it's possible for the enchanted creature to attack the hated creature after every possible moveaction it can perform?
Hence the enchanted creature must at least move 1 zone towards the enemy creature and if possible attack it. (?)

jacksmack

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 07:10:21 PM »
Then i find *durings it's activation* very misleading.

I thought that would mean its checked for every time its taking an action.

Also it makes the card kinda riddicilous.... i hate you so much that i move into your zone and guard / attack something else. Or if i have pest then i move out again.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:12:27 PM by jacksmack »

Obsidian Soul

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 10:12:45 PM »
It does keep the Griffin occupied.

ClockWork

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2016, 03:31:53 AM »
I apologize because I know your a big deal Zuberi, but respectfully,

Chant of Rage says "it must move towards a creature with a hate token, if possible" This card doesn't specifically say only one time. It dictates, that if the target can move towards the hate token, it MUST. So even a non-fast creature would double move to reach the hate token as long it wasn't hindered, furthermore if that creature was fast, it is required to make a melee attack, because, "During its activation, the enchanted creature MUST melee attack a creature with a hate token.".

I understand the only way around this is by choosing another MUST, like another creature with a hate token, or a wounded creature if the target has Bloodthirsty X, or a taunt.

The portion you added about not having to make a mandatory action possible has more to do with tanglevines, rooted plants, and the Blue Gremlin not being forced to pay mana to teleport through a wall.

In this case, all the mandatory actions are possible, and  are required by song of hate, so the Griffin must move twice and attack the crocodile.
Siren is so cool

Halewijn

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2016, 03:35:14 AM »
I agree with Jacksmack and clockwork that it is riddicolous then...
The problem is that Zuberi is always correct about rules. :p
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jacksmack

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2016, 03:51:47 AM »
I agree with Jacksmack and clockwork that it is riddicolous then...
The problem is that Zuberi is always correct about rules. :p

only 99.X% chance.

ClockWork

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 04:07:01 AM »
Do you get a banana sticker for winning "Mage-Rules Wars" against the great Zuberi?  ;D
Siren is so cool

bigfatchef

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 04:08:06 AM »
I agree with Jacksmack and clockwork that it is riddicolous then...
The problem is that Zuberi is always correct about rules. :p
+1

Kelanen

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 04:32:23 AM »
I'm quite certain that Zuberi is right on both points.

You check first if you can melee attack - if you can, you do, if you can't, you move towards.

You are not required to use Fast however. It says you 'must move towards' - 1 zone is towards, so you have fulfilled that. Using Fast is not a requirement, only an option.

Likewise, a non-Fast creature never has to double-move...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 04:36:22 AM by Kelanen »

jacksmack

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Re: Chant of Rage + Crusader Griffin
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 05:11:51 AM »
Why is it worded *during its activation phase* and not *when this creature is activated* ?