May 24, 2017, 04:59:41 AM

Author Topic: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode  (Read 1151 times)

Milevan_Faent

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Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« on: January 14, 2017, 01:20:32 AM »
Alright, so I'm going to need some community help to really make this concept work.

The core idea: Players start a match as Trainee (or Apprentice if you prefer) Mages, which when designed would be Level 4 mages with the same power scale as Academy roughly. Only 1 ability, limited mana, low health, 40 SBP, that sort of thing, but only 1 School. Might have some of the rules from Academy incorporated, but I don't know how it works as I've never played it, so I don't know for sure yet.

Winner of this round is the first player to win the battle by normal mage wars rules.

Round 2 ups the ante: Players choose 1 Mage from the Arena who shares their School, changes their mage to that one, and adds 80 SBP worth of cards to their deck, keeping the same 40 they started with. Play continues as normal until the winner of this round is decided. If a player has won both this round and the previous round, the match ends immediately. In the event of a tie (that is, one win each), play continues to Round 3.

In round 3, players take on the role of Archmages, as designed in the Archmage thread. The Archmage must share any Schools your Mage is trained it, keeping the same deck and adding 240 more points as you have done with the last 2 rounds. Play proceeds following the rules for Archmage until there is a final winner to break the tie.

Obviously as this will take a LONG time, play can be split up over multiple matches, and not all at once. Matches are played on a 3x3 board at Trainee level, 4x4 at Mage level, and a massive 5x5 grid at Archmage. The game is always reset between rounds, so any mana and cards cast are returned to books.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 01:40:05 AM by Milevan_Faent »

Sailor Vulcan

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Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 11:51:09 AM »
Hmm. This seems to be halfway between two different kinds of play. An important question to ask yourself when making a new variant format is what the purpose of this particular variant is? What role does it serve? What would the gameplay be like and how does it set itself apart from other variants? What makes your variant fun, and who is it most fun for? Normally I don't ask those questions because it's fairly easy to grasp it on an intuitive level.

Thing is your variant kinda looks like an amalgamation of two different possible variants with no reason to combine them in this way. Why not just do one of those two variants?

I suspect that you were trying to come up with a way to combine Mage Wars combat with rpg mechanics in a way that was more natural and didn't feel forced?

Here are the two directions you can take this in as I see it:

-Make it a pen and paper rpg with Mage Wars combat for the encounters. You could also do something slightly similar to this but without any storyline if you just want to focus on customizing your Mage including their ability card. Unfortunately there's no easy way to balance custom abilities without testing them ahead of time. I would recommend using regular Mage abilities but with altered starting stats which increase as the Mage levels up.

-alternatively you could just have a tournament where players play a variety of formats and versions of Mage Wars including academy, arena, apprentice arena and arena domination. The first match would be academy, second would be and apprentice, third would be Arena and fourth would be domination. And players wouldn't be locked in to using and editing the same spelbook for all four matches because strategies that work well in one version or variant of Mage Wars don't necessarily work well in another.

I myself have not yet made a good rpg format, although I've come close a few times I think. Ability cards are the sticking point I think. Ability cards which change over time are very hard to balance. Would probably need some testing.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 11:55:55 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Milevan_Faent

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 01:04:59 PM »
Hmm. This seems to be halfway between two different kinds of play. An important question to ask yourself when making a new variant format is what the purpose of this particular variant is? What role does it serve? What would the gameplay be like and how does it set itself apart from other variants? What makes your variant fun, and who is it most fun for? Normally I don't ask those questions because it's fairly easy to grasp it on an intuitive level.

Thing is your variant kinda looks like an amalgamation of two different possible variants with no reason to combine them in this way. Why not just do one of those two variants?

I suspect that you were trying to come up with a way to combine Mage Wars combat with rpg mechanics in a way that was more natural and didn't feel forced?

Here are the two directions you can take this in as I see it:

-Make it a pen and paper rpg with Mage Wars combat for the encounters. You could also do something slightly similar to this but without any storyline if you just want to focus on customizing your Mage including their ability card. Unfortunately there's no easy way to balance custom abilities without testing them ahead of time. I would recommend using regular Mage abilities but with altered starting stats which increase as the Mage levels up.

-alternatively you could just have a tournament where players play a variety of formats and versions of Mage Wars including academy, arena, apprentice arena and arena domination. The first match would be academy, second would be and apprentice, third would be Arena and fourth would be domination. And players wouldn't be locked in to using and editing the same spelbook for all four matches because strategies that work well in one version or variant of Mage Wars don't necessarily work well in another.

I myself have not yet made a good rpg format, although I've come close a few times I think. Ability cards are the sticking point I think. Ability cards which change over time are very hard to balance. Would probably need some testing.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the feedback. There was a reason for some of my choices though. Because each round carries over the cards and school from the previous round, you have at least some idea of what your opponent might be doing. This allows you to customize your new deck with this in mind to prepare to counter it and deal with potential problems, as well as to try and catch them off guard with any creative solutions to the problems you might face based on the information you gained.

In this way, its a multi-round format that creates a level of strategy that is very dynamic. At least, that was my intention. It is also an attempt at a more natural "RPG Mode" as well, that is true, but the retaining of previous decks was meant to allow for that strategic deck-building between rounds.

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Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 11:25:10 AM »
Hmm. This seems to be halfway between two different kinds of play. An important question to ask yourself when making a new variant format is what the purpose of this particular variant is? What role does it serve? What would the gameplay be like and how does it set itself apart from other variants? What makes your variant fun, and who is it most fun for? Normally I don't ask those questions because it's fairly easy to grasp it on an intuitive level.

Thing is your variant kinda looks like an amalgamation of two different possible variants with no reason to combine them in this way. Why not just do one of those two variants?

I suspect that you were trying to come up with a way to combine Mage Wars combat with rpg mechanics in a way that was more natural and didn't feel forced?

Here are the two directions you can take this in as I see it:

-Make it a pen and paper rpg with Mage Wars combat for the encounters. You could also do something slightly similar to this but without any storyline if you just want to focus on customizing your Mage including their ability card. Unfortunately there's no easy way to balance custom abilities without testing them ahead of time. I would recommend using regular Mage abilities but with altered starting stats which increase as the Mage levels up.

-alternatively you could just have a tournament where players play a variety of formats and versions of Mage Wars including academy, arena, apprentice arena and arena domination. The first match would be academy, second would be and apprentice, third would be Arena and fourth would be domination. And players wouldn't be locked in to using and editing the same spelbook for all four matches because strategies that work well in one version or variant of Mage Wars don't necessarily work well in another.

I myself have not yet made a good rpg format, although I've come close a few times I think. Ability cards are the sticking point I think. Ability cards which change over time are very hard to balance. Would probably need some testing.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the feedback. There was a reason for some of my choices though. Because each round carries over the cards and school from the previous round, you have at least some idea of what your opponent might be doing. This allows you to customize your new deck with this in mind to prepare to counter it and deal with potential problems, as well as to try and catch them off guard with any creative solutions to the problems you might face based on the information you gained.

In this way, its a multi-round format that creates a level of strategy that is very dynamic. At least, that was my intention. It is also an attempt at a more natural "RPG Mode" as well, that is true, but the retaining of previous decks was meant to allow for that strategic deck-building between rounds.

I see. Kind of like sideboarding. But it would probably be better to work out some kind of Mage Wars equivalent of sideboarding that actually makes it feel like a natural part of the format rather than just tacked on for no reason. I suppose you could have players share a card pool and make it into a "deckbuilding" game? Players start with 0 spell points and gain 10 spell points every planning phase to purchase spells? Then they could basically customize their decks as they play in response to what their opponent(s) do. This would probably work better than a regular drafting format for MW now that I think of it. I'll go post it now.

In any case, your format is basically an rpg-style format with skipped levels no exp and with sideboarding needlessly tacked on. IMHO it would work better separated into three different things:

1. A Mage Wars Rpg
2. Deckbuilding Mage Wars
3. A multi-format Mage Wars tournament

Of course this might still work well as one thing if you could find another good substitute for sideboarding besides turning it into a deckbuilding game.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 11:30:06 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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JasonBourneZombie

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 01:21:16 PM »
A cool concept, it would probably be too difficult to fully RPG-ize Mage Wars without a major overhaul. One way I think this system would shine is in long-term playgroup format. All players start at Apprentice level and gain experience that can be applied towards a level up to the next mage strength. Minor boosts between mage levels may be necessary, but the idea of mages leveling up definitely has appeal.
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DevilsVendetta

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 02:49:07 PM »
A cool concept, it would probably be too difficult to fully RPG-ize Mage Wars without a major overhaul. One way I think this system would shine is in long-term playgroup format. All players start at Apprentice level and gain experience that can be applied towards a level up to the next mage strength. Minor boosts between mage levels may be necessary, but the idea of mages leveling up definitely has appeal.

This would work so well with the original Archmages you introduced as well as each current mage could level up into their own Superman's before the final growth into the dual class epic mage. The one thing I'd  like to see carry over from class to class are abilities.

Milevan_Faent

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 03:22:24 PM »
A cool concept, it would probably be too difficult to fully RPG-ize Mage Wars without a major overhaul. One way I think this system would shine is in long-term playgroup format. All players start at Apprentice level and gain experience that can be applied towards a level up to the next mage strength. Minor boosts between mage levels may be necessary, but the idea of mages leveling up definitely has appeal.

This would work so well with the original Archmages you introduced as well as each current mage could level up into their own Superman's before the final growth into the dual class epic mage. The one thing I'd  like to see carry over from class to class are abilities.

The concept I made here is intended to work with his Archmages.

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 02:23:18 PM »
I've looked into doing a RPG for mage wars and think it will be a great idea. My version had us collecting experience at the end of each match. You would start off as a level 1 mage and pick one school of magic or element. Everything else would be triple the cost since you just starting out and you would only be able to place cards into your spell book. You would gain experience from the spells you would cast and the creatures you would defeat; this was based of the level of the spell and creatures you defeated. After each match you would go and spend your experience however you wanted, increase health, SBP, level up your mage unique ability and so on. The issue I ran into was how much should the upgrades cost. Also, I didn't know what would happen if a mage would die, does that mean that player has to make a new character and start from zero and if they do how can they still be competitive. Another idea I had was that a mage could leave the arena if they could make it to one of the doors and then have another move action to move out of the arena.

I was thinking mages would start with 5 channeling, 15 health and 40 SBP. This way when your character get huge and powerful it feels like your guy really improved over time.

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 02:47:43 PM »
I've looked into doing a RPG for mage wars and think it will be a great idea. My version had us collecting experience at the end of each match. You would start off as a level 1 mage and pick one school of magic or element. Everything else would be triple the cost since you just starting out and you would only be able to place cards into your spell book. You would gain experience from the spells you would cast and the creatures you would defeat; this was based of the level of the spell and creatures you defeated. After each match you would go and spend your experience however you wanted, increase health, SBP, level up your mage unique ability and so on. The issue I ran into was how much should the upgrades cost. Also, I didn't know what would happen if a mage would die, does that mean that player has to make a new character and start from zero and if they do how can they still be competitive. Another idea I had was that a mage could leave the arena if they could make it to one of the doors and then have another move action to move out of the arena.

I was thinking mages would start with 5 channeling, 15 health and 40 SBP. This way when your character get huge and powerful it feels like your guy really improved over time.
Maybe there could be tournmants that you can only enter if you meet a certain critera. Depending on how you place, you get more xp and the like.
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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 01:39:38 AM »
Nice ideas however I would much prefer to play different games to scratch those itches. There's a multitude of different rpg system that you can apply the MW universe to. The core game has enough deck building elements for anyone. Lastly other board games for everything else. This game is unique enough not to need diluting into areas that it doesn't need to go.
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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 07:06:30 AM »
True, there are other games out there that can scratch that itch of a campaign in a board game format (i.e. decent, imperial assault and arkham horror LCG) The thing is I don't know of a miniatures game with powerful mages like mage wars. It would just be awesome to have you start from 0 and become this super powerful mage that you created. Mages Wars has a lot of this set up as well with the leveling system and the different kinds of schools. All in all you can think of it as a different mode to play the game and you would be able to think about that academy is the small light version and arena is in the middle and the campaign would be large muilti-day/week game.   

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Re: Trainee to Archmage - An epic extended game mode
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 10:06:31 AM »
I made this today, I would like hear your guy's opinion.

I was thinking that mages start a channeling of 5, health of 15, SBP of 40 and chose a lv 1 school or element. One a mage hits lv 2 they would be able to add a attribute, things with + or - can stack. They can can only chose one and will be able to chose again from the same list at lv 4, 6, 8 and 10. Once a mage has hit lv 3 they can pick a abilitie but have to be at least a lv 3 in the school or element.

Experience points will be gathered by casting spells, defeating creatures or dispelling spells. The amount of experience is whatever the card lv is that is being cast and/or destroyed

One thing that I am having a hard time in is what happens when a mage were to die, do the spell points roll over to a new mage or do we say he didn't die.