December 16, 2017, 04:53:51 AM

Author Topic: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple  (Read 1529 times)

Reddicediaries

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Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« on: May 02, 2017, 02:51:09 PM »
So after playing a bunch with the paladin I've learned quite a bit about how he plays. Since day 1 the money question has been: do I go temple or do I go SWAT team? Whenever I consider temple, there are two main points to consider.
1. How do I want to cast the temple. Do I want it out turn 1 with a harmonize? Do I want it turn 2 while opening with clerics and crystals. Do I want to do it like Coshade does; cast a delayed temple or non at all. Etc
2. What can the paladin do with temple that the other holy mages can't?.
Priestess: Is inherantly better in the long game bc of the 10 channel and her abilities.
Priest: He primarily uses temple to get out cheap creatures like clerics, ehren, and defenders and often will get good value out of HAing one of the cheap clerics or knights.
So what can Paladin do with temple?
1. Clerics + knights + light of dawns. This seems the most logical way to use it, but I ran into a LOT of Mana struggles doing this.
2. Griffin Swarm: No thanks. Griffin shines as a Holy Avenger.
3. Red helm/ white cloaked knight swarm: Personally, I don't like etheir of these two very much. Who would use an attack spell on whitecloak if he was not immune and strongest creature interactions I'm still not a fan of.
4. Big angel/dragon: These might be better without temple and run into the same issues as number 1.
Level 1-3 holy swarm: I don't think this is great. Holy isn't really the best swarm school. They don't really have many AOE buffs unless you plan to turtle.
Which is another point; the paladin wants to hit things and gain valor. He doesn't want to be sitting back playing support the whole time. If your doing that, it is likely a good idea to switch to priestess.
Rant over. :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 03:44:18 PM by Reddicediaries »
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2017, 04:24:46 PM »
Interesting analysis!
So you are telling us there is no good scenario for Paladin with temple. That is the summary. Do I get that right?
I prefer the banner anyway, so that's good for me :)

One question remains: what are AOE buffs?

Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2017, 04:29:36 PM »
Interesting analysis!
So you are telling us there is no good scenario for Paladin with temple. That is the summary. Do I get that right?
I prefer the banner anyway, so that's good for me :)

One question remains: what are AOE buffs?
Thanks!
I'm not saying there's no good way, just none that I have figured out/made work.
AOE stands for are of effect. In the way I was using it, I meant holy doesn't have easy access to marked for death or something similar. Etherain life tree, spring, call of the wild, totems​, etc.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 06:31:59 PM »
No but i believe the paladin gets  access to concentrated ground, pillar of righteous flame, fortified position, HoBS, ToMeraveran, mending wave, group heal, group mend, healing madrigal, and a few others. Not to mention partial access to cards like renewing rain and sunfire amulet.
So honestly i think the issue you're having isn't that he didn't have access to aoe buffs (attacks, enchants, conjurations etc), its that you don't LIKE the ones he does have access to. No?
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2017, 06:44:20 PM »
No but i believe the paladin gets  access to concentrated ground, pillar of righteous flame, fortified position, HoBS, ToMeraveran, mending wave, group heal, group mend, healing madrigal, and a few others. Not to mention partial access to cards like renewing rain and sunfire amulet.
So honestly i think the issue you're having isn't that he didn't have access to aoe buffs (attacks, enchants, conjurations etc), its that you don't LIKE the ones he does have access to. No?
Pretty spot on Remeo!
I totally ignored those whole buffs! I meant more dice buffs which only meravaran really helps with.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 07:33:53 PM »
Why not have the paladin attack while his swarm supports him, rather than the other way around? Summon a bunch of noble vanguards to help attack enemies and guard your mage, and your mage can be the one to finish off the targets, using healing and protection to keep your vanguards alive. Noble vanguard has vigilant and intercept and is only lv2 and costs 9 mana.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2017, 07:46:04 PM »
Why not have the paladin attack while his swarm supports him, rather than the other way around? Summon a bunch of noble vanguards to help attack enemies and guard your mage, and your mage can be the one to finish off the targets, using healing and protection to keep your vanguards alive. Noble vanguard has vigilant and intercept and is only lv2 and costs 9 mana.
That's a good idea! The issue is, vanguards tbh, are not super durable. They have pretty poor initial stats in exchange for really solid abilities.
You need cass for this or you'll find yourself unable to spend your qc on other things.
The healing song would likely be included in the 2's or even 3's in a book like that.
However, the paladin needs some creature backup that can actually do consistant dmg. So something like ehren, KOW, Brogan, Blue knight (although less preferable in this case due to his mana "tax" and the need to spend considerable mana on group healing effects", or dorseas.)
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2017, 07:47:23 PM »
Why not have the paladin attack while his swarm supports him, rather than the other way around? Summon a bunch of noble vanguards to help attack enemies and guard your mage, and your mage can be the one to finish off the targets, using healing and protection to keep your vanguards alive. Noble vanguard has vigilant and intercept and is only lv2 and costs 9 mana.
Your also spend a TON of mana, actions, and sbp to keep those vanguards alive. 1 ring of fire + creature means by by at least 1-2 vanguards.
Cass helps, but still.
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Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 09:24:15 PM »
Why not have the paladin attack while his swarm supports him, rather than the other way around? Summon a bunch of noble vanguards to help attack enemies and guard your mage, and your mage can be the one to finish off the targets, using healing and protection to keep your vanguards alive. Noble vanguard has vigilant and intercept and is only lv2 and costs 9 mana.
That's a good idea! The issue is, vanguards tbh, are not super durable. They have pretty poor initial stats in exchange for really solid abilities.
You need cass for this or you'll find yourself unable to spend your qc on other things.
The healing song would likely be included in the 2's or even 3's in a book like that.
However, the paladin needs some creature backup that can actually do consistant dmg. So something like ehren, KOW, Brogan, Blue knight (although less preferable in this case due to his mana "tax" and the need to spend considerable mana on group healing effects", or dorseas.)

I'm not sure you really need another strong attacker like Dorseus. If you need to get past finite life just get rid of it or use martyr's restoration. Paladin is already really good at destroying enemy creatures. Temple of Asyra can summon cassiel and she can cast healing spells for you when necessary. Also the vanguards wouldn't have to kill anything they would just be doing some damage to make it easier for the paladin to finish off the enemy creature while also protecting the paladin. You could also use valshalla come to think of it. So if they do kill your vanguards you get a big buff on her. Also you know know iguana regrowth can be cast by cassiel right?


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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2017, 09:28:03 PM »
Why not have the paladin attack while his swarm supports him, rather than the other way around? Summon a bunch of noble vanguards to help attack enemies and guard your mage, and your mage can be the one to finish off the targets, using healing and protection to keep your vanguards alive. Noble vanguard has vigilant and intercept and is only lv2 and costs 9 mana.
That's a good idea! The issue is, vanguards tbh, are not super durable. They have pretty poor initial stats in exchange for really solid abilities.
You need cass for this or you'll find yourself unable to spend your qc on other things.
The healing song would likely be included in the 2's or even 3's in a book like that.
However, the paladin needs some creature backup that can actually do consistant dmg. So something like ehren, KOW, Brogan, Blue knight (although less preferable in this case due to his mana "tax" and the need to spend considerable mana on group healing effects", or dorseas.)

I'm not sure you really need another strong attacker like Dorseus. If you need to get past finite life just get rid of it or use martyr's restoration. Paladin is already really good at destroying enemy creatures. Temple of Asyra can summon cassiel and she can cast healing spells for you when necessary. Also the vanguards wouldn't have to kill anything they would just be doing some damage to make it easier for the paladin to finish off the enemy creature while also protecting the paladin. You could also use valshalla come to think of it. So if they do kill your vanguards you get a big buff on her. Also you know know iguana regrowth can be cast by cassiel right?


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It's worth trying out!
I still think the vanguards might die to easily. Also, 4 vanguards, 2 clerics, valshalla. What else would you run?
7 creatures does not justify temple imo.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2017, 09:38:42 PM »
tbh im not sure about valshalla. she might work really well and she might not. i think cassiel would be a good idea, or perhaps a forge. probably cassiel though. problem with valshalla is that she's expensive and by the time you bring her out your creatures might already be dying. so if you do use valshalla i think you would have to cast valshalla first then transition to using the temple of asyra. maybe if you send valshalla over to harrass enemy while you build up that will compensate for the slow start of your engine. alternatively you could play without valshalla and just try to keep your vanguards alive, which would also probably be viable. either way has a decent chance of working and you should probably try both to see which way you'd rather play it.

would also recommend temple of meraveran. etherian lifetree might also be good come to think of it.

i havent ever played as paladin so take everything i say with a grain of salt.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2017, 09:41:31 PM »
tbh im not sure about valshalla. she might work really well and she might not. i think cassiel would be a good idea, or perhaps a forge. probably cassiel though. problem with valshalla is that she's expensive and by the time you bring her out your creatures might already be dying. so if you do use valshalla i think you would have to cast valshalla first then transition to using the temple of asyra. maybe if you send valshalla over to harrass enemy while you build up that will compensate for the slow start of your engine. alternatively you could play without valshalla and just try to keep your vanguards alive, which would also probably be viable. either way has a decent chance of working and you should probably try both to see which way you'd rather play it.

would also recommend temple of meraveran. etherian lifetree might also be good come to think of it.

i havent ever played as paladin so take everything i say with a grain of salt.
Valshalla is best cast after the weenies imo. :)
If you don't have temple though, that's 6 or 6+ actions casting creatures that are not desinged to get in the action and be a threat.
Sending Valshalla in alone is a big waste imo. She gets no buffs and will most likely not cause a huge impact (other than her dying fast. ;)
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 09:44:57 PM »
the point of summoning valshalla early is not just to put on early pressure. it gives the enemy an incentive not to try to kill your vanguards. which protects your mage. and if they do decide to kill your vanguards, valshalla will be able to strike them even harder. btw i sent you a pm.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 09:46:39 PM »
the point of summoning valshalla early is not just to put on early pressure. it gives the enemy an incentive not to try to kill your vanguards. which protects your mage. and if they do decide to kill your vanguards, valshalla will be able to strike them even harder. btw i sent you a pm.
Saw it!
That makes sense, but casting Valshalla early reveals more of your plan than casting her later.
I already have a Valshalla book lol. With Paladin.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 09:47:50 PM »
well idk if revealing part of your plan is that big of a cost here. and using valshalla doesnt automatically tell people why you're using her.
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