December 17, 2017, 02:02:14 AM

Author Topic: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple  (Read 1538 times)

Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2017, 09:51:18 PM »
well idk if revealing part of your plan is that big of a cost here. and using valshalla doesnt automatically tell people why you're using her.
If your using Valshalla, you better be using level 1-2 creatures that can die or she is not worth it imo.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
yeah good point. if you're using valshalla you probably want at least 4 minor creatures. that being said there's still a lot of different things you can do with that, and your opponent wont know which one you're doing. and even if they do that's not necessarily that big a deal.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2017, 09:55:51 PM »
My current paladin books are : Forge/Ehren based paladin, Ehren/double Griffin based paladin, and temple paladin which Valshalla comes in and out of.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2017, 09:57:27 PM »
well you wont know for sure unless you test it. up for a game of mw on octgn? i know the server is down but we can still play by using hamachi:

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=18112.0

also edited the post because it turns out octgn will probably be back online sooner than i thought. they still dont have an ETA though.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:59:25 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2017, 09:59:50 PM »
Maybe. ;)
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RomeoXero

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2017, 10:58:52 PM »
I don't know about anyone else but i find the big angels to all be grossly overcost and under powered for the mana. They lack much armor or life for the mana and SP spent on them and they die very fast to focus fire. Therefore an early valshala might just catch an acid ball and a boulder and die before she wraths up as it were.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 11:01:03 PM »
I don't know about anyone else but i find the big angels to all be grossly overcost and under powered for the mana. They lack much armor or life for the mana and SP spent on them and they die very fast to focus fire. Therefore an early valshala might just catch an acid ball and a boulder and die before she wraths up as it were.
Exactly the reason early Valshalla is not good imo. :)
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RomeoXero

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2017, 11:05:13 PM »
I think you're missing the full point tough. The angels lack the overt force of an Adramalech, ir the staying power of an earth or water elemental. The only thing they have going for them is flying, which is practically worthless nowadays s a defensive measure. Im saying you shouldn't bother with the big angels... at all. They require way to much support so unless you've built your build totally around them they arent strong enough to do what you need them to do.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2017, 11:09:43 PM »
I think you're missing the full point tough. The angels lack the overt force of an Adramalech, ir the staying power of an earth or water elemental. The only thing they have going for them is flying, which is practically worthless nowadays s a defensive measure. Im saying you shouldn't bother with the big angels... at all. They require way to much support so unless you've built your build totally around them they arent strong enough to do what you need them to do.
That's the other problem yes. They need to be built around which is the reason that I almost always cut them.
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Halewijn

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 02:38:14 AM »
It's a good decent enough spawnpoint and paladin can just as much have a solid book with it as the cleric mages (imo much better than priest). With his access to ballista, war spells and armor he can react fast when rushed and he is the only mage that can intercept things to protect smaller creatures like archers (and easily guard with his armor) or the temple itself. In the long run he can use aura's as free buffs for all creatures in his zone so that's even better when you have many small creatures. If not by melee attacking, you can also gain valor by healing, intercepting, the occasional attack spell and by using your challange on creatures that will attack non-mage stuff.

The big angels indeed either need a book around them (Valshalla especially) or should cover a weakness in your book. Samandriel is great for nonliving and Selesius is an amazing counter to flying. However, since almost all holy mages already have counters to undead and have flyers they don't fill any gaps for them. So I agree with Romeo that most holy mages are better off without them.
However, I do have a druid book with Selesius to push/counter flying  and I used to have a forcemaster with Samandriel for necromancers and generally when she was action starved and had mana to spare.

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2017, 06:20:14 AM »
It's a good decent enough spawnpoint and paladin can just as much have a solid book with it as the cleric mages (imo much better than priest). With his access to ballista, war spells and armor he can react fast when rushed and he is the only mage that can intercept things to protect smaller creatures like archers (and easily guard with his armor) or the temple itself. In the long run he can use aura's as free buffs for all creatures in his zone so that's even better when you have many small creatures. If not by melee attacking, you can also gain valor by healing, intercepting, the occasional attack spell and by using your challange on creatures that will attack non-mage stuff.

The big angels indeed either need a book around them (Valshalla especially) or should cover a weakness in your book. Samandriel is great for nonliving and Selesius is an amazing counter to flying. However, since almost all holy mages already have counters to undead and have flyers they don't fill any gaps for them. So I agree with Romeo that most holy mages are better off without them.
However, I do have a druid book with Selesius to push/counter flying  and I used to have a forcemaster with Samandriel for necromancers and generally when she was action starved and had mana to spare.
You make a lot of good points!
Some things I noticed.
1. If your intercepting, it means your in the archers zone, which means not hitting things most likely. Now you likely would intercept at the beginning then transition​ into attacking, but still note worthy imo.
2. Which of "swarm" level 1/2 creatures are actually good in a fight? I'm still waking up, but I don't remember many who are.
Of the ones I do remember
All of the level 1 clerics: Without HA, none of them are very good in a fight. More support
Monk: Same deal
Sharpshooter: Personally, I don't think the guys are that good. Range 0-1 is not good.
White cloaked knight: Again, not convinced. His stats make him a worse to.ber wolf, and who uses attack spells on them?
Red helm: He's pretty good, but I still don't really like how challenged interacts.
Light of Dawn: Very solid support that can actually help in a fight. No glaring issues.
Lowland unicorn: I have never played with this card so no thoughts.
The sweeping angel: I have never played with this card so no thoughts.
Did I forgot any other than Cass who needs no analysis. :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 06:56:05 AM by Reddicediaries »
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Halewijn

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2017, 09:01:33 AM »
I didn't say you have to use minor creatures with a temple. You could also summon big guys from the temple (use the full action for meditating, remove curse or totally different other stuff). You could also only cast a creature every couple of turns.   

White cloaked knight, with 4 attack dice and his ability I think you underestimate him. I see many creatures get the final blow with an attack spell. He's an amazing target for buffs too. Generally not the best if you see that the opponent has big creatures that would smack him down though. red helm is amazing but situational so not for every game. light of dawn is the most versatile unit. Daze can help you a ton. Asyran defender is good for a guard that can take a hit  and the Noble Vanguard can move 2 + guard, attack and guard but will indeed not live very long mostly.. From what I see, you have many good options to choose from.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2017, 09:17:37 AM »
Hmm, after reading this thread a few things come to mind:

1) Valshalla is a lot less susceptible to focus fire if she's being protected by Noble Vanguards.  If they die catching a boulder she gets stronger :)
2) Cassiel casting Iguana Regrowth on your vanguards is pretty cheap and gives them some necessary staying power.
3) Iguana Regrowth (and other healing support spells) can trigger Disciple of Radiance.
4) Temple spawning Messenger of Bim-Shalla can keep up the pressure while getting in some clutch healing.

Happy book building.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2017, 10:10:32 AM »
Hmm, after reading this thread a few things come to mind:

1) Valshalla is a lot less susceptible to focus fire if she's being protected by Noble Vanguards.  If they die catching a boulder she gets stronger :)
2) Cassiel casting Iguana Regrowth on your vanguards is pretty cheap and gives them some necessary staying power.
3) Iguana Regrowth (and other healing support spells) can trigger Disciple of Radiance.
4) Temple spawning Messenger of Bim-Shalla can keep up the pressure while getting in some clutch healing.

Happy book building.
Interesting!
I'm a bit wary of spending 2 sbp/ 2+sbp on creatures that are supposed to die anyway.
A good opponent may just ignore the vanguards and port me/Valshalla out. Not fighting on my terms essentially. It's the main reason Temple High Guard isn't that great in my eyes.
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jacksmack

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2017, 10:14:50 AM »
Guards loses flying.
Guards with intercept cannot take the hit from a flyer.