December 16, 2017, 04:54:54 AM

Author Topic: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple  (Read 1530 times)

Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2017, 10:15:39 AM »
Guards loses flying.
Guards with intercept cannot take the hit from a flyer.
Beat me to it Jack!
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2017, 12:42:57 PM »
Guards loses flying.
Guards with intercept cannot take the hit from a flyer.
Beat me to it Jack!

Guard with Valshalla.  Problem Gone.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2017, 01:17:46 PM »
Guards loses flying.
Guards with intercept cannot take the hit from a flyer.
Beat me to it Jack!

Guard with Valshalla.  Problem Gone.
The thing is, in meele, they can then hit her. And you kind of want the vanguards to die to give her rath tokens, so IR on vanguards is questionable.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2017, 01:18:47 PM »
The other big question is how many creatures do you want to run. 11-13/14 seems typical for a book like this, but more seems a bit much.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2017, 02:33:27 PM »
You could run Gravikor :)

I just thought it might be an interesting idea. I have no clue whether or not it could become competitive.

Also, the Disciples of Radiance can die to fuel Valshalla as well.  Iguana Regrowth makes it just that much harder to kill the Vanguards which gives you time for a later Valshalla.

If we're buffing troops to keep them around, I think I'd prefer Iguana Regrowth on Knight of the Red Helm since he's got 3 armor.

I could see an extremely fun team game in which a Paladin and a Straywood team up.  Straywood runs life tree and Felella with all of those nice enchants and Paladin pumps out vanguards and red helms.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2017, 05:39:15 PM »
You could run Gravikor :)

I just thought it might be an interesting idea. I have no clue whether or not it could become competitive.

Also, the Disciples of Radiance can die to fuel Valshalla as well.  Iguana Regrowth makes it just that much harder to kill the Vanguards which gives you time for a later Valshalla.

If we're buffing troops to keep them around, I think I'd prefer Iguana Regrowth on Knight of the Red Helm since he's got 3 armor.

I could see an extremely fun team game in which a Paladin and a Straywood team up.  Straywood runs life tree and Felella with all of those nice enchants and Paladin pumps out vanguards and red helms.
It's an idea for sure!
I think a paradox is with Valhalla, your opponent doesn't want to kill things not her. But killing her is really hard because of all the vanguards. So she more forces the opponent into having all bad decisions.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2017, 01:37:53 PM »
This is what Schwegott said when I asked him about Paladin with Temple:
"Priestress and Paladin can be great at healing and keeping creatures alive. That works well when you have big creatures, that can soak up some damage without dying.
Priest on the other hand is better when you dont care about your creatures at all and focus on attacking. Also the Holy Avenger is cheaper with lower creature levels.
So my conclusion is: Some bigger creatures for Priestress and Paladin, several minor creatures for Priest.

But ... that only counts when you play a creature Spawnpoint with all of them. It'S a different situation when you play with a Forge, because you need your mages full action to summon a creature. I can be a waste to use it for only a minor level 1 creature."
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2017, 09:14:40 PM »
It's also worth noting you can't really intercept for your archers unless you personally are in their zone. So not much melee buffs lol. Or meleeing at all. :o
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2017, 11:51:13 PM »
So after doing some more testing and talking with Werekingdom, I have some new thoughts on the Paladin.
1. So looking at his abilities
1a. Challenge supports getting in the face and smashing things. This seems to imply that you want a couple buddies to do the initial dmg, then finish them off and get benefits through signet of the dawnbreaker.
1b: However, his auras seem to get better the more creatures you have. And if you look at cards he has easy acsess to, 
fortified position, temple of meravaran, temple of the dawnbreaker, etc, you can see he has a TON of good "Army support" cards.
So I'm thinking a good paladin might build up a small army with a mix of both sizes of knights with some angels (cass + guardien most likely), then use all his area buffs to support them and MURDER things.
The priestess does the best straight temple build and the priest can do temple then be more "aggressive" (bc of HA INSANE effect on low level creatures, he also cares less about them dying imo). The paladin can support his "swarm" better than the other two Holy mages imo.
Thoughts?
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2017, 07:48:48 AM »
I think those are valid and interesting perspectives and thoughts about the paladin. The logic is sound and the theory is developing nicely. I'm personally interested in how you implement those theories into a book and the tactics involved. Have you tried much of this out? Which creatures/ openings/ support spells have helped accomplish what you lay out above? What has been detrimental or tough to deal with when trying to implement this in a match?
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2017, 09:37:03 AM »
I think those are valid and interesting perspectives and thoughts about the paladin. The logic is sound and the theory is developing nicely. I'm personally interested in how you implement those theories into a book and the tactics involved. Have you tried much of this out? Which creatures/ openings/ support spells have helped accomplish what you lay out above? What has been detrimental or tough to deal with when trying to implement this in a match?
Thanks!
So essentially, I made a book last night that I'll post when I'm at home, but it focuses on medium creatures while then transitioning to bigger guns like angels and knights.
I think the current book runs 1-2 vanguards, 2 light of dawns, 2 KOW, 2 Angels, Ehren, 2 clerics, monk, messenger bim, and potentially a red helm or white cloaked knight. And I might have the legendary archer from pvs (can't spell her name lol)
Well it makes sense. While you get lots of valor with the ring on by killing creatures fast, the more creatures you have, the stronger the auras become. And the Paladin has good acsess to "Swarm" support like the healing song, temple of meravaran, dawn's bastion, some war commands, radient breastplate, fortified position song of love, etc. He also has good access to help his mitigate the dmg he takes when he most likely protects his creatures with Temple of the Dawnbreaker, Divine Reversal, Glancing Blow, Brace Yourself (although every mage has equal access to it bc it's novice), and eye for an eye for doing the dmg you take right back (and you have easy access to healing)
I've only played the book once and it was against one of biblo's necro's. The match actually went much better than expected (I killed the Idol and graveyard without being overrun by zombies) and had I put ANY armor on, I could have pulled it out. (The book was also missing purify, remove curse, and signet of the dawnbreaker at that point.)
I'm a bit worried about potential mana issues and which creatures to run. Red helm I really don't like bc of strongest interactions, but he's still pretty good. I already mentioned why I dislike White Cloak Knight. However, you need some of the five main eight mana creatures for holy (Red helm, White Cloak Knight, Light of Dawn, Defender, and Vanguard). Personally my ranking of them is LOD, Vanguard, Defender, Red helm, White cloak knight, but I need to test the last three a bit more.
It's also important to have at least one and likely two eight mana creatures so you can quick deploy from the banner if needed. In my SWAT paladin, I never cast the banner bc all my creatures outside of Ehren were nine mana or more; I never had the mana to cast anything from the banner even if I did cast it (unless I let it build up which doesn't really fit that book.)
The priestess is actually better with a few bigs and a forge imo (paladin is right behind). This is because she can heal her troops more effectively and is better at "defensively" supporting most troops. She is also the best at "pure" temple because of the higher channeling and abilities/cards that combo well with her. The priest can go with a forge or temple, but I think how Coshade uses him is spot on. The priest cares less about supporting the creatures and is more alright if they die than the other two holy mages. Since HA in INSANE on most level 1-2 Holy creatures, he can just reapply it for very little mana.
The Paladin is the best at supporting an army imo. His auras are get better with the more creatures you have and as already stated, he has a TON of ways to not only defensively support them, but offensively as well (meraveran, auras, bastion can do both, radiant can do both, etc).
An army is not a swarm imo. An army is made up of for the most part strong creatures that are worth buffing (individually or as a mass). Swarms are for the most part made up of much more fragile and are often not as worth supporting each creature (or even any of them really.)
So the priestess is the best at a "pure" temple build and few big with a forge, priest is the best with smaller creatures that go with HA, and the Paladin is the best at "army" play.
So all in all, many people think the paladin should be this rush mage who banner rushes and kills you by turn 6/7 or something like that. Or a SWAT team. Those can work pretty well, but I actually think going with an "army" is the best way to go. You get more use out of your auras and the paladin has the best ways to support an "army" of any Holy Mage in my eyes.
Once I figure out what creatures/how many to run and how to manage mana issues, I think it could be a pretty good book.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 01:52:37 PM by Reddicediaries »
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Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2017, 08:38:09 PM »
You could also become the ultimate zone killer. Set up fortified position, conquer one zone, shift enchantment it, rinse and repeat.
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Re: Paladin Using Temple vs Other Holy mages using temple
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 05:08:57 PM »
ב"ה
My temple paladin bring the temple on turn1 and gear up for melee. On turn 3 I bring a level 3 buddy (usually a Temple High Guard). since my melee build bring most of the heavy equipment on turns 4-7, usually I just cast clerics on turns 5 and 7. Then I bring a 2nd or 3rd level creature for reinforcement every other round (sometimes I wait an extra round or two to bring a bigger creature).
It is sort of a melee+reinforcements build :)