August 21, 2017, 10:53:33 AM

Author Topic: Siren's Call on a rooted creature  (Read 308 times)

the_wiser

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Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« on: May 11, 2017, 12:12:35 PM »
Hello to all,

I was wondering if an experienced player could help settle a question that was posted on BoardGameGeek.

The initial question was:

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If, as the siren, I use "Siren's call" on a creature that is rooted (such as certain trees) i was wondering if the opponent is required to pay the mana to uproot and move or is it the opposite and that creature is effectively immune?

My reply was:

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Based on the wording of the Siren's Call ability (during its action phase, a creature with the Siren's Call marker MUST move at least one zone closer to the Siren, if possible), and provided of course the Rooted creature in question has the Uproot object trait, I'd say the controller of that creature would have to move said creature (and consequently, pay the Uproot cost).

Another user chimed in, saying:

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It's creature that has to move. Its controller doesn't have to make it possible for the creature to move. You don't have to pay uproot cost or grant flying to vampiress. In codex/supplement section on mandatory actions is written that You don't have to use optional abilities to do mandatory action.

I replied to this with the following quote from the Rules Supplement:

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(...) The controller of the creature is not required to do anything beforehand that would make the action possible. For example, the controller does not have to activate the ability of another card (like using Archerís Watchtower to give a ranged attack the Indirect trait) in order to make the action possible. Note that declaring the action includes paying any costs, so one would be required to pay any costs required to perform the action.

Underline mine.

This was countered again:

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You pay uproot cost when activating a creature not when declaring an action. You first activate a creature and check for available actions after. This is different case from blue gremlin who can replace move action with teleport.

Can anyone help settle this question?

Thanks a lot.

DaveW

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 06:40:30 PM »
This was asked before, and the answer (as I recall) was that you did not have to make it possible for your creature to move. If it can move, it must... so if the uproot cost is paid, then it must abide by the Call. If the cost is not paid, then the creature can do whatever else it wants.
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Zuberi

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
DaveW and the other boardgamegeek poster are both correct. You are unfortunately not. The Supplement is quite clear that a player doesn't have to make a mandatory action possible. Thus, you do not have to pay the uproot cost to make a mandatory move action possible. The section about paying the costs attributed to the action is not relevant to the discussion, as uproot is not a cost to move. It is a cost to get rid of the rooted trait, paid for at the beginning of the creature's activation. This may seem like semantics, but it is an important distinction.

Now, if this was a question regarding Suppression Orb, which DOES add a cost to move actions, then you WOULD be required to still move if you could pay for it.

DaveW

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 09:13:05 PM »
One other interesting note... a creature with an uproot cost of +0 still does not have to move in response to the Call... it is still rooted even though it could uproot at no mana cost.

Now, if this was a question regarding Suppression Orb, which DOES add a cost to move actions, then you WOULD be required to still move if you could pay for it.

I am not 100% sure I understand this. You aren't saying that a Siren with a Suppression Orb in play, using the Call on a rooted creature forces the player to pay the uproot cost, are you?
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Puddnhead

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 09:34:06 PM »
One other interesting note... a creature with an uproot cost of +0 still does not have to move in response to the Call... it is still rooted even though it could uproot at no mana cost.

Now, if this was a question regarding Suppression Orb, which DOES add a cost to move actions, then you WOULD be required to still move if you could pay for it.

I am not 100% sure I understand this. You aren't saying that a Siren with a Suppression Orb in play, using the Call on a rooted creature forces the player to pay the uproot cost, are you?

Zuberi is referring to a scenario in which there is no Uproot cost but there is a Suppression Orb in play.  Suppression Orb adds a cost to the move action, therefore if you did make a move action while it was in play you would have to pay the cost.  Even if you didn't want to move but were required to (as in the case with Siren's Call or Chant of Rage, etc)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 10:39:32 PM by Puddnhead »
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Zuberi

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 09:58:49 PM »
What Puddnhead said.

the_wiser

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 06:20:23 AM »
Okay, thanks to all for taking the time to help me out.
So, just to be clear, and if I understand correctly, if the Uproot cost is NOT paid by the creature's controller, Siren's Call would NOT be able to pull said creature one zone closer to her, is that right?

DaveW

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Re: Siren's Call on a rooted creature
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 11:43:20 PM »
Correct.
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