December 16, 2017, 04:55:42 AM

Author Topic: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth  (Read 967 times)

ExcaliburTK

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2017, 12:42:36 AM »
every lightning spell has ethereal which is a big reason the seem underwhelming in the damage and condition departments.

Zuberi

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2017, 08:41:00 AM »
Ethereal doesn't honestly affect the cost. This is because it doesn't actually do anything. Even against incoroporeal objects it just makes the spell work as normal. Still doesn't add anything to it.

Arkdeniz

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 12:34:19 AM »
With the Paladin and soon the Academy Warlord I would have expected that Lightning would be getting more love for the extra damage it will do to those lovely armoured lightning rods that are knights and some other soldiers. 
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 07:56:05 AM »
Ethereal doesn't honestly affect the cost. This is because it doesn't actually do anything. Even against incoroporeal objects it just makes the spell work as normal. Still doesn't add anything to it.
That isn't nothing. incorporeal effectively halves all damage on average. Kind of like resilient. What you're saying is kind of like saying that the critical trait doesn't affect the cost because it doesn't actually do anything, just makes the spell work "as normal" as if the defender didn't have resilient or armor.

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jacksmack

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 09:58:21 AM »
Ethereal doesn't honestly affect the cost. This is because it doesn't actually do anything. Even against incoroporeal objects it just makes the spell work as normal. Still doesn't add anything to it.
That isn't nothing. incorporeal effectively halves all damage on average. Kind of like resilient. What you're saying is kind of like saying that the critical trait doesn't affect the cost because it doesn't actually do anything, just makes the spell work "as normal" as if the defender didn't have resilient or armor.

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its actually cutting the average damege down to 1/3.

But i agree with you sailor.

 *just normal*. Most incorporeal spells are a big gamble because if your up against a wizard who like Force Hammer then its basically instantly countered at a cheaper mana cost.
I have to admit that i up until just now thought hammer rolled +2 against all conjurations, which makes it a slightly weaker counter.

Still i find most incorporeal objects slightly overpriced or with too few HP.
Its a very difficult trait to balance. Because vs the counter (ethereal) the spells are too expensive and fragile for what they do.
But on the other hand, if your up against someone who runs out of counters then the incorporeal objects are so sturdy that you lose if you try to destroy them with non-ethereal attacks.


RomeoXero

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 11:57:25 AM »
I actually find that ethereal us a dish best served in small portions.  Arcane zap, priests holy pimp hand, jet stream, invisible fist, etc.
With very few exceptions incorporeal things tend to have very low life totals,  and the big ethereal hitters are expensive and under powered. Id rather stick a jet stream on a wand with a hawkeye and remove the threat with a few small strikes than try and gamble on my 6 dice 4 sp 9 mana force hammer doing that crucial, statistically improbable 7 damage in one shot.
Incorporeal actually lowers the damage taken by more than a 3rd if you think about it, because i limits takable damage to the lowest possible value. Resilient creatures can at least be killed with one solid crit role as 3 dice can do a max 6 damage. 3 dice can do a max 3 damage with a perfect roll to an incorporeal object. That just sucks.
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jacksmack

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 12:26:09 PM »
Average damage rolled per dice is =  (1+1+2+2+0+0)/6 = 1

Remove all 2's and 4 out of 6 sides are blanks. The remaining 2 sides does 1 damage = 2/6 damage on average = 1/3

But it is worth noting that variance will go up and making it likelier an attack will do (close to)nothing. but over time its still 1/3 damage per dice rolled. this is when comparing vs a normal creature with 0 armor.

But i think the variance when attacking resilient might be higher.

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 12:35:32 PM »
Thats what i meant. Thats why i spelled it out thusly.  The ratio is still 1 3rd of the possible values, but the numbers themselves can be variable I  those different ways. Thank you for the clarity though.
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Puddnhead

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Re: Attack spells: Lightning vs Light vs Fire vs Earth
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »
Ethereal doesn't honestly affect the cost. This is because it doesn't actually do anything. Even against incoroporeal objects it just makes the spell work as normal. Still doesn't add anything to it.
That isn't nothing. incorporeal effectively halves all damage on average. Kind of like resilient. What you're saying is kind of like saying that the critical trait doesn't affect the cost because it doesn't actually do anything, just makes the spell work "as normal" as if the defender didn't have resilient or armor.

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What Zuberi is saying is that the Ethereal keyword does not affect the cost of the spell. The Incorporeal trait significantly increases the cost of an object. Due to the large number of ways to get reusable Ethereal, the objects with Incorporeal are over priced.
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