October 18, 2017, 08:44:13 PM

Author Topic: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable  (Read 519 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« on: June 05, 2017, 06:21:25 PM »
Needs a way to deal with Siren' s call
=either multiple big creatures or psychic immune or no creatures
Needs a way to deal with psychic conditions and enchantments
=dispel and priestess's ability or use psychic immune or no creatures
Needs a way to remove armor
=dissolve and dispel

The only psychic immune creatures in the core set are skeletal sentries, and they're kind of frail. They die really fast without reassemble and there's only two of then in the core set. Which means you would need them to do as much damage as possible to the mage or to a big threat before they died. Problem is they can't gain elusive, so the only they can handle enemy guards using only core set is if you use knockdown or tanglevine/force hold. This is fine if there's only one enemy guards. If there's two or more you're going to have a hard time constantly reapplying knockdown, you don't have astral anchor to stop them teleporting out of your tanglevines, and you dont have enchanter's wardstones not arcane wards to protect your force holds. And before you suggest just including more copies, more copies takes more spellppints to include in your book and more actions to keep putting them back on after earlier copies get dispelled. Not to mention thr core set only has two copies of force hold anyway.

With the core set you can get up to 7 armor if you invest the spellppints. It only takes a rust and three acid balls to whittle it down to 0, and that's if you even have the actions to get that much armor. A battle forge in your corner is still very vulnerable to bring being destroyed early if you're not putting pressure on the enemy especially if you're facing druid or siren and you dont have any creatures to reliably protect it because only the sentries are psychic immune and you dont have intercepting creatures and you dont have mind shield. Against forcemaster you need unavoidable attacks or to restrain her so she gets lower def rolls. If you try restraining her with tanglevine shell teleport out because you dont have astral anchor nor a way to protect it if you did and shell also dispel your force holds easily enough for same reasons. The only way to get unavoidable attacks in core set x1 only is perfect strike or brogan bloodstone or flameblast. There are only two flameblasts in the core set and if you put on an elemental wand it will just get dissolved because flameblast is range 0-1. you try to use priestess's ability to deal with psychic conditions on brogan and to remove corrodes and weaks while using dissolve and dispel it get rid of enemy armor and a combination of evade on a mage wand and Mongoose agility to get past guards , and minor heals to keep him alive he while he attacks, that could possibly work as a tanky  rush deck against everyone except the siren because siren' s call has no removal cost.  Summoning multiple big creatures that aren't psychic immune could work if you could give them all elusive to get past guards. There are only two monoose agilities in the core set, so you would need one of your creatures to have innate elusive. That basically just means cervere. But cervere is expensive since he costs 15 mana. And if they dispel any of your Mongoose agility you could be in trouble. Not to mention you have no way to deal with swamp except to push or teleport both your threats and the enemy mage out of it. As soon as they have a swamp with astral anchor and an arcane ward, that's basically gg.

So how to stay viable while buying the minimal number of expansions?

That depends on what you're doing. If you want to rush with a buddy that isn't psychic immune, you need mind shields. That would mean forcemaster vs warlord.

If you want to do a solo rush with attack spells you need acid balls to deal with armor. Dissolve is range 0-1 and the majority of lasting mage armor is equipment which means if you try to get rid of their armor first you often won't be attacking until at least round 4.
That means druid vs necromancer.

If you want to tank the enemy out with dot, you need things that do dot the majority of which comes from enchantmentst. Ghoul rot and magebane are in the core set but they're often not enough. You either need to get force crush (forcemaster vs warlord) or you need astral anchor and stranglevine (druid vs necromancer and battlegrounds: domination). In either of these two cases you would need enchanter's wardstones to protect your enchantments, so you would need conquest of kumanjaro.

The list goes on. Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable in competitive play. The last potentially viable core x1 only book after druid vs Necromancer was likely some kind of priestess book, and with Siren's ability such a book has become unviable.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 06:27:34 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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jacksmack

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 03:16:57 AM »
Sounds like doomsday to me!

Halewijn

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 03:50:25 AM »
it's pretty obvious that someone limited to core set after 5 arena expansions, 4 academy mages and 1 domination set is going to have a hard time against someone with access to everything.  ::)

More importantly, core set cards are still viable in books today. Todays books are still packed with core set cards. It's not like spells from the core set are weak compared to newer cards. (they are simpler/more broad though)
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Mystery

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 06:18:16 AM »
isnt arc lightning core set and unavoidable?

why do you need intrinsic creature to be able to get elusive, you have of course only two copies, but if those are dispelled, your rhino hide, regrowth, bear strength can stay around and so on.


The terrain issue is not really related to core set, but in general not enough mages have usable terrain for them and terrain is the only way to deal activly with terrain.


But halewijn is right what you expect after so many expansions there is of course some part lacking. Priestess shines as condition removal is not very implemented in the core set. (also less ways to deal it of course @playtesters)

Your analysis is a bit strange ;) (independent of my point why at all ;))

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 08:00:25 AM »


isnt arc lightning core set and unavoidable?

why do you need intrinsic creature to be able to get elusive, you have of course only two copies, but if those are dispelled, your rhino hide, regrowth, bear strength can stay around and so on.


The terrain issue is not really related to core set, but in general not enough mages have usable terrain for them and terrain is the only way to deal activly with terrain.


But halewijn is right what you expect after so many expansions there is of course some part lacking. Priestess shines as condition removal is not very implemented in the core set. (also less ways to deal it of course @playtesters)

Your analysis is a bit strange ;) (independent of my point why at all ;))

Arc lightning isn't in the core set. I think its in FvW.

Also if you don't have elusive it will cost too many actions to get past enemy guards, AND dissolve enemy armor AND to keep replacing your enchantments when they get destroyed.

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Beldin

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2017, 02:08:10 AM »
I disagree. A good friend of mine went to a tournament and asked me to help him put his first book together. He only had access to core and academy core. It takes more creative thinking than normal however and I'd say you are more limited to priestess or beast master.

Granted you have no corrode however piercing mitigates armor and dissolve is a core spell. For example.
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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 07:01:27 PM »
Hey Sailor Vulcan,

If I was limited to the core set, I would pack alot of surging waves.
You don't need elusive (slam guards) or unavoidable if you have the Surging Wave. then dissovle/hit face whatever.

Core 1 is still a good choise. If you have access to only one expansion/set to build a deck then the Core set is be far your best option.

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 07:42:58 PM »
Surging wave isn't in the core set.
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Werekingdom

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Re: Why Core set x1 only spellbooks are no longer viable
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 01:47:20 AM »
Surging wave isn't in the core set.

...............Sorry............
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