October 17, 2017, 05:12:41 PM

Author Topic: Rise of the Necromancer.  (Read 1023 times)

silverclawgrizzly

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Rise of the Necromancer.
« on: June 21, 2017, 12:48:59 PM »
I'd like to take a moment to discuss why the Necromancer has seen such a surge in popularity as of late. With the exception of this past Origins it seems like you can't go to a competitive tournament without running into one of these guys, or more like several of them. It's like going to a comic book convention and running into Joker cosplay, you know it's going to happen.

But what is it that makes the Necromancer so appealing? Like every mage he's got his weaknesses, in his case large glaring ones but he's also got his strengths.

I'm personally of the opinion is his main strength is his Poison Immunity. That's a whole strategy right there you can just straight up ignore. But is it really that great? Standing across the arena from a Paladin does it really matter that he can't Taint me? When boulders are flying from on top a Warlords hill do I honestly find comfort in knowing "Well at least that giant chunk of rock won't Rot me?"

Yeah you the big advantage Poison Immune is strong is it totally destroys the Curse game for many of the strongest curses. But again it doesn't help against Mage Bane or Chains of Agony.

In terms of creatures I'll say this: Yes zombies are awesome. But rely on them too much and some hard hitting Holy mage, and all three of them can go melee easy, is gonna hand your butt to you fast. Skeles give you more options and some healing on them which can increase their longevity.

I'm curious to other people's constructive thoughts on why many arenas are going goth as of late.
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jacksmack

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 06:34:19 PM »
Cheap durable hard hitting creatures. (zombies).

They have less mobility but its not really a problem because of idol of pestilence. Eventually the opponent has to come at you.


I think its kinda broken he gets poison immunity for free. I would have preferred it to be be a necromancer only equipment that could be destroyed.
It also limits his own strategies... basically if you make a serious book you cannot put more than a few points into poison cards because if you invest too heavily your at a serious disadvantage in a mirror match that spends 0 points on poison cards.


To sum it up. Cloak of shadows, Idol, Zombies.

vlad3theimpaler

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2017, 03:12:18 AM »
I can't speak to tournament appearances, but I can tell you why I love the Necromancer.  For me, style is a big part of it.  I've always thought black had some of the coolest cards in M:tg, and in dnd, my favorite enemies were liches, vampires, and other undead.  (And some demons, too.)

So when I tried mage wars, I immediately gravitated towards the dark mages.  Warlocks immediately caught my eye with their demons, and a few undead here and there.  And then the Druid vs. Necromacer expansion came out, and I still think it's the coolest expansion in the game.  There's so much style! You've got shambling zombie hordes, you've got an altar that powers up by placing skulls on it, you've got the book of the dead as an equipment!  (And if you have the sweet cardsleeves with the Libro Mortuos art, you can have your spellbook card in the spellbook sleeve, inside your spellbook.  It's like a Russian doll of evil!)

Mechanically, the Necromancer does awesome things, too, that tie into the flavor.  The poison immunity to me implies that the Necromancer is on the way to undeath himself, and the ability to use it as a weapon with impunity is pretty useful.  Having a graveyard and an evil book as spawnpoints are awesome flavor, and it also allows a cool strategic option of using both to just flood the board with creatures.  And having skeleton objects that can't be "healed," but can be "reconstructed" with an ample supply of bones is also pretty cool, and useful.  I actually prefer the skeletons to the zombies, both because I think they're cool, and because I'm a contrarian like that.   :)  They actually also work a little better against other necromancers, imo, because you're not paying for bloodthirsty effects that won't matter.  And with the dark conjurations that sap the other player's life, there's also an option to effectively set a "clock" and dare the opponent to try to kill you before that.

In short, Necromancers are both extremely cool from a flavor perspective, and have some unique strategic options open to them that separate them from the other mages.  That's why I like playing them, and I expect that's true for other people as well.
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drmambo23

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2017, 11:45:52 AM »
I know ive posted !bout the necro more than any other mage bit i like to share anythjng i can about him.

I play necro for the flavor morr than anything. But i have also made him my main for tournaments bc i do well with him, but that is only secondary to the flavor aspect. I actually started making him my main for tournament training bc he has the undead creatures. When i got into the tournament scene forcemasters were strong and mind control always got me. So use undeads, play poison cards, and go at it. Plus playing as my favorite mage was a nice bonus!  :)

But why he is great in mage wars:
Zombies are dirt cheap for what they can do
Skeletons are durable and can be healed
10 channeling
2 spawnpoint options, i am in favor of graveyard
Trained in dark, enough said there
Eternal servant ability...for no mana investment up front.
And poison immunity! I think this and 10 channeling make him a force to be taken seriously.  The 10 channel bc he is easy to upgrade it making it more difficult for a 9 channel to catch up, but also is wonderful if you use the rin and a spawnpoint to get a 2 or more mana discount each turn on top of that. 

Yes, you dont have to worry about a boulder tainting your mage. But you can apply arena wide effects and focus down a target to take them out faster while you and your creatures are fine.  And i resent your argument using a dirty holy mage!!! And i will take the challenge if zombies vs your melee paladin!

And there are plenty if cards to work against a mirror match like drain life, siphon life, magebane, chains of agony, marked for death, curse of decay, etc. All of these are in school options that are cheap, except drain life, and allow you to work around poison immunity.   But its the same scenario as if a warlock faced another warlock that used all fire immune creatures. It would be tough but can be done by prepping the right cards in your book.

But yes, the main strategy as of late is idol, zobos or skellies, and cloak. Why? Because it kicks ass! I am working on sime builds that will hopefully show that a necro can be more than just a hoard generating machine that sits in the back or the arena. But its all a work in progress. But the "necro meta" has been established that way for now and i hope it does change and we see a more diverse playstyle from players, muself included.  Bit what we have now, if played right works and i think that is why people gravitate towards him. But its not just his stata that make him great. Like always you have to know your book and possible strategies to go against.  Necro, to me, is like a game of cat and mouse. You build up, play your defense, attack, wash rinse repeat.

But that aside, if you know how to react, using the tools he has can make him a strong contender for offense and defense! 

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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 01:36:34 PM »
Nice responses so far, I get the flavor appeal. I'd imagine why my locals play him too.

DrMambo if you want to send your zombies into the holy meat grinder I'm happy to mail back what's left sir.
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V10lentray

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 02:04:29 PM »
Alfiya loves Zombies!!!
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Biblofilter

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 04:20:58 PM »
I don´t know if anyone has mention it already.

I have a great hatred for Forcemaster: Sleep, Mind Control and Mass Sleep.

Thats why every time i feel like going about being a merry Beastmaster - i choose Necromancer instead:

PSYCHIC IMMUNITY :)

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 04:30:57 PM »
I don´t know if anyone has mention it already.

I have a great hatred for Forcemaster: Sleep, Mind Control and Mass Sleep.

Thats why every time i feel like going about being a merry Beastmaster - i choose Necromancer instead:

PSYCHIC IMMUNITY :)

Good luck being immune to critical damage and having a taste of your own Non-living medicine :)
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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 04:56:21 PM »
Pfft what do birds care about steep hills? Sleep spells? Ha! Cure handles that and then some. Beast Master shall slay the new Force Master tricks and any Necromancer!

Ahem...back on topic....I also wish all the necros good luck with the scarabs.
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MrBubu

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2017, 05:46:40 AM »
I feel the necro has a strong economy, with 10 base channeling, potentially long lasting creatures, arena wide effects. That's why they can afford to meditate in the first place.

And of course he has problems against holy. But against non-holy mages? I think that's where he can shine enough to make him attractive for tournaments. PvS and academy priestess can somewhat seen as a meta-nerf to the necro but stil...

drmambo23

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2017, 07:01:27 AM »
I dont think the uphill battle against a holy mage is as bad as many are saying. 

Priestess is the easiest to beat. Yes, she can get rid of poison conditions you put out but if you stop her healing you have a big advantage. Priest is tricky bc of the burns, but combo that with graveyard so when your creatures finally burn to death you get some mana back. And you have eternal servant to keep bringing back. Paladin is the toughest holy opponent, imo. The crazy melee buffs and auras he can aquire makes him a big threat for a necro. But playing a control game, focuasing down the enemies and do the rest of what a necro does will make the match up easier. Holy mages vs necro is tough, dont get me wrong. But it can be worked around and these games either end pretty fast or drag out and take a while to finish.

Just my 2 cents on the part against holy mages
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Enti

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2017, 08:19:37 AM »
Since priestess is (by far!) the strongest holy mage she consequently is the toughest opponent for the necro.

I played dozens of times with necro against paladin and he not even once was able to get his auras activated.
Furthermore his ballista loses ~half its effectiveness because the piercing is completely useless against zombies and skeletons.
That actually leads to the fact that paladins tend to attack the graveyard, what ultimately seals their demise.

Priest, no comment, still the weakest holy mage.

Priestess...  brrrr.

Without Pillar of Righteous Flame there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. But this pillar is just sooo fucking OP against necro. I can only urge every mage to include a pillar. Because it evens out the odds against necromancer. (and apart from that it's still a strong card in other match-ups)

Of course, that's just my point of view.

V10lentray

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2017, 08:50:14 AM »

Priest, no comment, still the weakest holy mage.


The priest is terrible. He needs to be able to summon demons!
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drmambo23

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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 09:36:45 AM »
Since priestess is (by far!) the strongest holy mage she consequently is the toughest opponent for the necro.

I played dozens of times with necro against paladin and he not even once was able to get his auras activated.
Furthermore his ballista loses ~half its effectiveness because the piercing is completely useless against zombies and skeletons.
That actually leads to the fact that paladins tend to attack the graveyard, what ultimately seals their demise.

Priest, no comment, still the weakest holy mage.

Priestess...  brrrr.

Without Pillar of Righteous Flame there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. But this pillar is just sooo fucking OP against necro. I can only urge every mage to include a pillar. Because it evens out the odds against necromancer. (and apart from that it's still a strong card in other match-ups)

Of course, that's just my point of view.

To be a pure holy mage, i think the priestess is super tough to deal with, yes.  But the pillar isnt a make or break for the necro. Ive got my butt handed to me multiple times by holy mages that havent used the pillar. Yeah its a very good card but 1 force wave and a wall stops it.  2 cards i reccomend for any necro zombie. And if 2 actions and 11 mana keep all of your zombies from taking a ton of damage its worth it.

And for paladin, if you can get 3 to 4 creatures out of the graveyard before he tears it down you should be ok and not have to play catch up to deal damage. Just my experience.


Priest, no comment, still the weakest holy mage.


The priest is terrible. He needs to be able to summon demons!

He can summon them :) just a matter of how you make the book effective. You might want to try druid with fire elemental and fire demons ;)


Back to the necro, though
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Re: Rise of the Necromancer.
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 10:07:22 AM »
To be a pure holy mage, i think the priestess is super tough to deal with, yes.  But the pillar isnt a make or break for the necro. Ive got my butt handed to me multiple times by holy mages that havent used the pillar. Yeah its a very good card but 1 force wave and a wall stops it.  2 cards i reccomend for any necro zombie. And if 2 actions and 11 mana keep all of your zombies from taking a ton of damage its worth it.

so you got two attacks hit your creatures and avoided anymore by paying a total of 2mana more. would still take that trade off. I am also of opinion pillar is extremly strong. it buys you time, so for 9mana i have you invest 11mana and two actions and i still got two 6dice attacks in good trade off :D



I think the main bonus of necro still is poison immunity it frees quite a few spellbook points for fewer dispel, remove curse, purify etc. in total.