November 14, 2018, 08:37:20 PM

Author Topic: The future of Mage Wars  (Read 10031 times)

Karadox

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2017, 02:28:52 PM »
I think you are right about the druid and necro but i'm sure we will see at last one whole new Mage.
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isel

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2017, 03:30:35 AM »
When we´ll see news about the new 4 mages? date of reléase?

Beldin

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #92 on: December 29, 2017, 02:43:48 AM »
When we´ll see news about the new 4 mages? date of reléase?

At this point nothing can be confirmed or denied past what has been officially announced by AW. Anything other than this is pure speculation, as soon as something official transpires then y'all will be the first to know.  :)

fas723

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2018, 12:56:14 PM »
Hello (again) everyone!
Long time since I posted here too. I just want to add my 2 cents to this discussion.

I have been Ambassador in Sweden since the program started. At first it was quite ok. I had several matched face to face each week. Tom Vassel had the game at his top 10 games of all times. And people felt an urge to try it out.

But when time went by things started to slow down. People at conventions were not as interested anymore. Less buzz around the game. And the forum got less and less attention, and became a...ghost town. Today I haven't played a game for over a year, even if I really would like to. But I'm still looking at all videos from Arcane Duels (Awesome guys!) to keep up with the meta and news of my favorite game.

So why has it turned out this way? Here are a few bullets I'm thinking of:

- The game is to long
This I think scare new players off. It looks and feels like a 45 min to 1h game. At least that is what people expect it to be based on their inner comparison with MtG. Now an average game is more like 2h, and that is way to long for this format. At least to attract a larger player pool. Same thing with Academy in fact. It is to long for what it gives. And to be honest MtG does this format much better, why Arena is the way to go for Mage Wars.

- Armor issue
This bullet is very connected to the first one. In my mind armor and defense are two functions that prolong the game in a less desired way. Thematic it is great. But it is frequently seen that both mages and creatures stack a lot of armor which basically neglects 1/3 of all die rolls. This isn't very inspiring for an opponent. On top this is armor stacking very efficient and a good strategy as well. I would say most Armor spells should have been much more expensive.

- Destructive spells.
Same thinking as with the Armor issue. Every time you design a card that makes something destructive, and removes something from your opponent, you should think twice before releasing it or determine a cost for it because it will only prolong the game in an unfun manner. Spells like: Dispel, Siphone, Mana worm, Enfeeble, etc. These cards should also had been much more expensive.

- Effect issue
There are too many effects! For new people this is a jungle. In one game I tried to explain the difference of Rot and Bleed. They are basically the same, so why make a new version of it? All these tiny rules will act as a huge barrier for new player to get into the game.

- Ability issue
Wow, look at all these cool creature and conjurations abilities! Well, for new players this can be overwhelming. When each creature has its unique ability and none are just vanilla. Sometimes I play with the thought that what if most creatures were standard creatures and abilities came from the Conjurations, Enchantment and Mages?

- Card pool count
In revers to several others in here I think the card pool is too large. That is at least the impression I get talking to "mugglers". There is no life cycle of cards. The pool just grow and grow and grow. It is even hard for me to keep track of all cards. Maybe a better format how to use the cards is needed?

- Critical player count
I hope this isn't too late. But one big reason the game doesn't take off more, at least not in my area, is that a game needs a certain player count to grow from. MW had the chance when it was released but never really came up to that critical level when the crowd could bring in new players by itself. Now head hunting for new players are down to just a few dedicated persons globally, which is not enough. I bet one reason AW don't release new content as often for Arena is that for each release the sells figures has gone down down down.


I'm not too concerned about the release schedule. Actually I think it is just fine. What is missing is a clear well communicated plan for it though. Like: "Every year there will be one Arena release in April and one Academy release in November". Here AW must improve.
I guess it all boils down to what type of game and community we would like to have. Are we and AW looking for a prospering community I think the game needs a remake of some sort. Otherwise it will be you guys who are currently playing the game who will keep doing it, no one else unfortunately.

Karadox

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2018, 01:49:32 PM »
That's one of the reasons I like about arena, every creature has what it takes to imagine that it really would have made all its intrinsic when one thinks of these creatures. This is also something that bothers me because of the academy cards.

This is one of the bonus points compared to MTG because every creature is more or less the same
The names are interchangeable. Whether vampire or meerkolk is on the card, it does not matter, a 2/2 creature.

But so different are the opinions...

I also think that AW should make a plan when we can anticipate next products.
If their heart is in Mage Wars, AW should find ways to push the game.

But right now it's going backwards "Pegasus Spiele" has stopped translating last year.
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fas723

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2018, 05:06:32 AM »
Translating in my opinion isn't very productive. Why spend company resources and time to reinvent the wheel? No, it is better to use this time to develop new and better content for the game. I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions? The game was made in English and will be developed in English. Same thing when a game is made in German, why translate? Deal with it, play the original, and let the resources go in the right direction. I have several games in my collections in German, French, Italian, Dutch and English. None in Swedish, and I do fine!

(As a side note. The reason most American publishers has pulled out from fairs like Essen is because people are lazy and can't tolerate games native language. Not even when there are no language dependency within the game, just the rulebook. American publishers instead relied on channel partners to translate their games. And see how well that did for MW for example.)

One more bullet I forgot to mention in my last post.
The introduction of Academy was really poor in my view. Marketing and production quality were ok, but the choice of mages were horrible. I can't understand how a mana-canceling wizard could end up as one of the basic mages in the core box? Why put in a "super advanced" mage whose only purpose is to deny the opponent to do "anything"? When I was demoing this the first year at one of Sweden’s larges conventions I got the same comment each time: "The beastmaster was cool, but the Wizard just made the game boring". Note, these were the only two mages available by then. Sure there are several to choose from today, but the train has already left...

Karadox

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2018, 05:42:17 AM »
I think you miss the point.

I have no problem with English cards, but there are younger players or people who just do not understand english well enough!

In some countries it is more normal than in others without translations, television, movies, books and everything else.
I've lived in a russian country for some time and 80% of the population speak no English.

It's hard enough to teach the game to new players.

If it were up to you, there would not be any translations, not even for books? :-)

And on the other hand AW did not have much to do with the translation, pegasus games was responsible for that.
In my opinion it would be better there would be more translations no less it just scares some people off.
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Obsidian Soul

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2018, 07:38:28 AM »
Translation services are not that expensive and Arcane Wonders could always use automatic translation services if they are willing to accept some oddities (Hydro would probably translate to 水力発電 in Japanses, and that took me five seconds to find on Google).

exid

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2018, 09:22:44 AM »

- Effect issue
There are too many effects! For new people this is a jungle. In one game I tried to explain the difference of Rot and Bleed. They are basically the same, so why make a new version of it? All these tiny rules will act as a huge barrier for new player to get into the game.

I +++ this one!
I like the compexity, but never understood why not have a "critical wound" for all burn, bleed, etc., and a "unconscious" for all stun, daze, sleep, etc.

exid

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2018, 09:28:10 AM »
I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions?

It's a cultural thing.
English is very used in Sweden... in Germany and in France we learn a little english, spanish or italian, at school, but we often prefer to speak, to hear, to read, to play in our own language.

fas723

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2018, 09:29:58 AM »
I think you miss the point.

I have no problem with English cards, but there are younger players or people who just do not understand english well enough!

In some countries it is more normal than in others without translations, television, movies, books and everything else.
I've lived in a russian country for some time and 80% of the population speak no English.

It's hard enough to teach the game to new players.

If it were up to you, there would not be any translations, not even for books? :-)

And on the other hand AW did not have much to do with the translation, pegasus games was responsible for that.
In my opinion it would be better there would be more translations no less it just scares some people off.

There were no games in Swedish when I was young either... I had to learn in order to play.
If it were up to me I would say that all games should be made in/translated to English only. Then it wouldn't be a problem. This applies even for books, if you like.
(I don't think I own a Swedish book, and I haven't read one since the end of high school. At the university everything is in English, what else should it be?)

Even if AW didn't do the translation themselves partners had to be found and maintained. Contracts had to be made and intellectual properties carefully exchange. These things takes time. More time and resources then most people realize (even the involved parties). On top of this the translating side now have an extra expense they need to cover. Someone has to pay for this, at the end the customer obviously. What I have seen the cost for an German copy isn't more expensive compared to a English version, which means we all pay for this cost collectively (I doubt the German publishers accept lower margins for their versions).
Anyhow, Pegasus realized it wasn't something to invest in any more at the same time as AW will, which prove my thesis some.
Sorry, I didn't want this discussion to end up in translation issue. Please comment me, but I won't reply to this segment any more.  :)

Translation services are not that expensive and Arcane Wonders could always use automatic translation services if they are willing to accept some oddities (Hydro would probably translate to 水力発電 in Japanses, and that took me five seconds to find on Google).

Yes! If any translation, this is the way to go.

Karadox

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2018, 10:11:18 AM »
Back to the topic, do you think if there would be more translations there would be fewer or more players?

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« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:21:39 AM by Karadox »
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grga.curkovic

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2018, 12:13:58 PM »
Remember how Tony said that he will be re-initiating contact with me and making sure that I get everything that is needed? That was said on 1st December, how many of you think he contacted me since? ... That is the kind of neglect MW players are complaining about...

fas723

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2018, 12:23:19 PM »
Back to the topic, do you think if there would be more translations there would be fewer or more players?

I think if resources were put into developing, communication and events instead of translating it would build a better base for succeeding. Basically, people would like to play a good game instead of a mediocre translated one.

Remember how Tony said that he will be re-initiating contact with me and making sure that I get everything that is needed? That was said on 1st December, how many of you think he contacted me since? ... That is the kind of neglect MW players are complaining about...

That is just awful!  :( >:(

Kelanen

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Re: The future of Mage Wars
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2018, 02:07:18 PM »
I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions?

It's a cultural thing.
English is very used in Sweden... in Germany and in France we learn a little english, spanish or italian, at school, but we often prefer to speak, to hear, to read, to play in our own language.

France I agree with, but not Germany. I spent 6.5 years working for a German multinational, and was over at head office every other month. The company official language for all meetings beyond department level was English, all staff from the canteen, to support staff to the board spoke very fluent English, and I use to socialise after hours with quite a few people, and even had a relationship with a German girl for 18 months. The picture I built up (and they were very proud of) was that everyone spoke good English, and felt comfortable using it - I can't speak German beyond a few tourist basics, and menus btw.

I've had similar experiences on the German/Dutch border and in Berlin, but in both cases my contact has been more limited to 'tourist-facing' people. I've also travelled across former East-Germany, but had less social contact there - I'd imagine English is much less spoken there, except amongst the youngest generation perhaps. We did have one interesting discussion with a mortuary worker during a dissection we were witnessing, where neither his English nor our German covered specific organ names and biological processes, but since we all had A-Level or degree Biology, we could communicate longhand by describing organ functions!

Some years later, and purely by coincidence, by fiancee is British, but speaks fluent German (attended a German-Swiss school from 4-18), and 3 of her last 4 jobs have been explicitly German-speaking and liaising with companies in Germany, as well as doing translation work. She reports much the same - with the odd exception, most people she speaks to in a German company  actually enjoy speaking English, and try to steer conversations to English, rather than German.

Just to add a third datapoint (admittedly less robust). On numerous similar discussions on BoardGameGeek and Kickstarter a lot of German players have said they prefer to get English copies of games, rather than German. That is probably something of a self-selecting sample however, as I'm reading those comments  from people who are happy and able to post on English language sites and threads to start with, and it makes sense that their playgroups (both family and friends) would often be similar.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 02:11:53 PM by Kelanen »