August 14, 2018, 04:51:01 PM

Author Topic: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?  (Read 521 times)

Reddicediaries

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How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« on: January 17, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »
I consider myself an experienced and good paladin player. The forcemaster matchup, however, has proved to be just horrible.
I chalk this up to a lack of experience, but I have been absolutely destroyed in every single paladin vs forcemaster matchup.
It seems no matter what I do, I just get wrecked.
For example, my last game got ruined because my opponent had a sleep spore. I did not have the actions to cast and use wand of healing while dealing with his stalker, vampiress, and mage.
I am just completely baffled by how to win this matchup.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 12:16:55 PM by Reddicediaries »
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Obsidian Soul

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 11:22:58 PM »
I would suggest using swarm tactics (it generally works when I go up against the Forcemaster), as it is difficult for the Forcemaster to stand against 6-8 creatures.  In addition, I would suggest thinking about using Eye for an Eye on your Paladin, as it will cause a lot of problems for the Invisible Stalker and the Forcemaster.

drmambo23

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2018, 06:22:16 AM »
I would say
Firaylt, play against a bunch of forcemaster builds and adjust from there. Before you play you can ask your opponent if they will play a fm. And say younwant to test openings. Play about 5 rounds if you want then stop and restart if they agree.

Second, if fm goves you that much trouble then it may not be a bad option to take a small break from the paladin and delve into the fm. This will give you a better understanding of the way their books are made, the way they think, plan, etc. That knowledelge will help you counter play a fm build and become more aware in your match ups against them. They are also fun to play so thats a plus!

Its also very nice to play other mages as the game is called mage wars, not paladin vs everyone else :b
I came to that realization after 2 years of necro play. I love the necro but in the long run i hurt myself as a player bc i never played other mages and truly understood them, just how to beat them after playing them for sooo long....ergo, i wasnt truly playing mage wars, i was playing "necro vs everyone wars"
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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 10:01:27 AM »
Necro vs Everyone Wars you say? I have a good friend with that game, I think you've met her Mambo  ;D

Seriously though just keep playing and don't make the same mistakes twice Red.
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Puddnhead

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 11:35:55 AM »
One of the ways of thinking a player needs to overcome to successfully fight a Forcemaster is that she fights fair.  She doesn't fight fair.

She's fundamentally at an action disadvantage.  No spawnpoints and very few creatures in her repertoir.  She can't afford to fight fair.  You have to expect your stuff to be out of position all of the time.  No matter how many teleports and force pushes you bring you will never out position a Forcemaster.

The Forcemaster, to greater extent than the Druid and the Necromancer (depending on your book), is a mage that you have to actively make a plan against while building your book.  The two most important things to overcome vs a Forcemaster are her positional advantage and her superior defenses.

Positional Advantage
1) Force Pull.  A good Forcemaster will use this to isolate and destroy your army. This is baseline, no spellbook points.  You have not learned how to play Forcemaster if you never use this ability in your games.  Additional tools in this category include Force Push and Chant of Rage.
2) Mind's Eye.  This spell is a trap.  Attacking it is the worst thing you can do (imo).  The best way to beat Mind's Eye is to close.  Run up to the Forcemaster so that the action was wasted.  Make the Eye a trap for her. If you turtle against Mind's Eye you lose.  Granted, it's dangerous to run up to a Forcemaster, but you have to be within range to affect her and her stuff or you just lose to Mind's Eye.

Superior Defenses
1) Deflect.  Deflect is her baseline 7+ defense.  Tied for best defense in the game with Reflex Boots and Cobra Reflexes (9 mana each).  The only way to reliably hit her is to Incapacitate her or use an Unavoidable attack.  Knockdown and Surging Wave are tried and true tools here.  Additional in school defenses are Dancing Scimitar, Force Orb/Sword, Block, Reverse Attack and the rising popular Symbiotic Orb.
2) Forcefield.  If you don't have a plan vs Forcefield you lose.  It completely cancels an entire attack every turn.  Forcefield begins with 3 counters on it, so initially you have to knock off 3 counters in one round or 2 counters a round for 2 rounds to make any headway.  The obvious choice is Dispel, but that will cost you 12 mana.  Other options include Wall of Thorns + Force Push (which will still cost you 11 mana) or a horde of creatures all of which had better be able to survive a single 7 dice attack.  Additional defenses in this category are Repulsion Field and Force Shield.

Fitting in either category are the control spells.  Mind Seize, Mind Control, Charm, Song of Love, Lullaby.  Each of them can turn into action, position or defensive advantages when played properly.  One strategy vs the Forcemaster is to play Psychic Immune and Unmovable creatures.  The issue with that is that you had better be able to overcome their (usual) Slow trait or you'll just get yanked away from them and diced yourself.

Since you asked about the Paladin, I actually think that Holy mages have a decent amount of options vs the Forcemaster.  Blind, any healing, Aegis, Eye for an Eye, Divine Reversal, Restore and a host of Ethereal attacks (vs Mind's Eye or Stalker) and easy access to Healing Wand, Galvanize and Cure.  Obviously, vs a Sleep Spore the Priestess is the most superior, but that doesn't change the other options you have.

As a final aside, the Siren is very similar.  Many tactics that work against the Siren will work against the Forcemaster.
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Kharhaz

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 11:46:30 AM »
2) Mind's Eye.  This spell is a trap.  Attacking it is the worst thing you can do (imo).  The best way to beat Mind's Eye is to close.  Run up to the Forcemaster so that the action was wasted.  Make the Eye a trap for her. If you turtle against Mind's Eye you lose.  Granted, it's dangerous to run up to a Forcemaster, but you have to be within range to affect her and her stuff or you just lose to Mind's Eye.


hmmm and you're favorite mage is forcemaster you say? This smells like a trap. Tired of everyone beating down your mind's eye puddin? I'm on to you :D

Puddnhead

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Re: How can the Paladin beat the Forcemaster?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 11:57:49 AM »
2) Mind's Eye.  This spell is a trap.  Attacking it is the worst thing you can do (imo).  The best way to beat Mind's Eye is to close.  Run up to the Forcemaster so that the action was wasted.  Make the Eye a trap for her. If you turtle against Mind's Eye you lose.  Granted, it's dangerous to run up to a Forcemaster, but you have to be within range to affect her and her stuff or you just lose to Mind's Eye.


hmmm and you're favorite mage is forcemaster you say? This smells like a trap. Tired of everyone beating down your mind's eye puddin? I'm on to you :D

Stay tuned for Tuesdays with Puddnhead #20 coming out on 01/23!

Seriously, you have no idea how much it hurts to give all of my favorite tricks away. I fully expect to be destroyed the next time I play Forcemaster now and I'm already crying. :'(
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