December 11, 2018, 12:15:37 PM

Author Topic: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade  (Read 2523 times)

iNano78

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 03:18:06 PM »
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:20:16 PM by iNano78 »
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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 04:28:36 PM »
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.

The relevant text from the rulebook is here:

"If the attacker or defender moves during the attack (such as
by revealing an enchantment that allows him to Teleport)
that attack is canceled, even if the move was to another
location that is in range."

"When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell
is no longer a legal target or has moved, even to the same
zone, then the spell is cancelled."

I cannot find anywhere in the supplement or the rulebook that being moved during the cast action cancels your spell UNLESS it results in the caster no longer having range or LoS.  So, I would suggest that DI on a Mage to cancel a bear would only work if you actually moved the mage into a new zone because the target zone has not actually moved and is still a legal target if in range.  I might be missing something, though.
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drmambo23

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 04:41:16 PM »
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.

The relevant text from the rulebook is here:

"If the attacker or defender moves during the attack (such as
by revealing an enchantment that allows him to Teleport)
that attack is canceled, even if the move was to another
location that is in range."

"When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell
is no longer a legal target or has moved, even to the same
zone, then the spell is cancelled."

I cannot find anywhere in the supplement or the rulebook that being moved during the cast action cancels your spell UNLESS it results in the caster no longer having range or LoS.  So, I would suggest that DI on a Mage to cancel a bear would only work if you actually moved the mage into a new zone because the target zone has not actually moved and is still a legal target if in range.  I might be missing something, though.

Makes sense. So by this, equipment would cancel if you moved them 3 zones away from the casting spot or around a wall to block los?
If you leave them in the same zone or within range 2 the spell may stick?

Am i getting that right?
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keejchen

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 04:56:21 PM »
I'm pretty sure the spell is just always broken with DI, no exceptions.
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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 05:24:01 PM »
From what I read, the spell is always broken if the TARGET moves.  Not the caster.  So, no matter where the target moves, it has moved and therefore the spell is canceled.  But it seems like if you move the caster it doesn't do anything unless the target becomes no longer valid.

It could be that some sort of non-explicit definition of a teleport involves removing all range or LoS to anything else and thus it always cancels, but I do not see that in the rules.
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keejchen

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 05:35:31 PM »
http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement4.2.pdf

Page 7

Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack
A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where
the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone).
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DevilsVendetta

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 06:31:00 PM »
It'd be a bit of a waste to use it on Galvitar since it's cantrip and goes right back to the spellbook. It's a loss of mana and tempo, but not a complete waste. Doing it as the mage casts a big creature or big attack spell would be the only ways I'd use it in that situation since it's still a loss of mana and tempo, but the creature or attack spell is also lost which is the key to me.

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 08:00:32 PM »
Also, DI has epic so you can only use it once per game.

If you're running a mana denial deck and you have enchantments, enchanter's wardstone can trigger sistarran robe's eff.

Also, don't forget that drain life drain soul and siphon life can be used on non mage creatures, not just mages. And sometimes this is a really good move. Usually I only see people using them on mages.

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 10:36:18 PM »
http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement4.2.pdf

Page 7

Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack
A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where
the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone).

AHA!  I DID miss something!  Thanks Keejchen.  That's how I've seen it played out, but I couldn't find the rules to back up that convention.
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Kelanen

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2018, 11:51:04 AM »
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit

I really think it's neither! It's a lot of mana and spell points for what you get, but it's a cool trick. It's what MW needs more of!

drmambo23

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 09:54:27 PM »
Ok guys, only 5 more days until tools of the trade is officially up! :D
Thank you everyone for your submissions so far!

If anyone has anymore ideas, please send them in; the areas i seem to be lacking material on are:
dark mages in general, nature mages in general, warlords, priest and priestess.

and just to let you guys know where i am at currently, i have 4,376 *4,516* words in my document for this! Keep the ideas coming and keep your eyes posted for the official post on 1/15/18!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:07:15 PM by drmambo23 »
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Biblofilter

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 12:36:17 AM »
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)

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drmambo23

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 10:06:52 AM »
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)



DI + W + Big T
???
divine intervention + wall + big threat?
Dig In + Warlord + Big Threat?
lol not sure what the last one means :b
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Biblofilter

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 11:24:00 AM »
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)



DI + W + Big T
???
divine intervention + wall + big threat?
Dig In + Warlord + Big Threat?
lol not sure what the last one means :b

You got it :)

Divine Intervention+Wall+Tsunami

It might get known as T-Cheese  ::)
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RomeoXero

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Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 11:26:48 AM »
Lol biblo that's 32 mana. That's a lot
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