January 25, 2020, 08:03:38 PM

Author Topic: Seeking Dispel  (Read 5617 times)

Rumsey

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 10:05:34 AM »
I agree wholeheartedly.  I'm not really sure what the Scenarios were about in the first place.  I thought that Arcanus answered my very first post well enough.  Thanks for chipping in.

piousflea

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 10:09:05 AM »
Actually, it does matter that you always play enchantments face down.

Nullify occurs on the Counter Spell step. If you play an enchantment on a creature with Nullify, it gets countered and you never have a chance to reveal it. This means you don't pay the reveal cost and you don't have to show your opponent what it was you were trying to cast. (Even if you had originally planne to cast and reveal during the same action.

theduke850

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2012, 10:20:37 AM »
good point piousflea, I was so caught up with the dispels and such that I forgot about Nullify, but in the case when there is clearly no other enchantments on the target creature, there should be no reason why you couldn't short-hand it and do all the steps at once.

piousflea

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 10:30:22 AM »
Theduke - I agree. If there are clearly no counterspells in play (face down cards on your wizard that could be Jinx, facedowns on the target that could be nullify) then you should be able to cast and reveal as a single action.

Upgrayedd

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 10:52:58 AM »
Oh boy.  I'm the fellow thatwas playing against Jon when this issue came up.
I intended to stay out of this, but things seem to have clouded up.
The situtation was my mage was casting an enchantment.  I announced I was going to just play it revealed and pay the full cost.  There were no enemy spells on me of any kind.  I knew it couldn't be disrupted so I intended to just speed things up a bit.  Jon  really wanted to stick to the letter of the law.
   Jon had a wand with seeking dispel bound.  He attempted to use seeking dispel then realized he was 3 spaces away and canceled the attempt.
   He told Rumsey and me that if an opposing Mage has an unused quick action he may attempt to use a spell (even one in his hand!) to intercept the enchantment before it is revealed.  He didn't at this time becuase he was 3 spaces away.
   This intervention by use of a quick action during the other player's turn is where the dispute arrises.
Jon did NOT have two identical wands when we played. He did mention that  a strategy he likes to use is equiping a wand with seaking dispel and a wand with dispel.    
   There was another poor error but I will not get that one started publicly.
Summary: Can a Mage during the other Mage's turn use a quick action to cast seeking dispel before the Mage (who is the active player) can reveal his enchantment.  Answer NO.  
    You use your quick action during your turn.
    Jon wasn't trying to reveal an enchantment he had previously cast.  In the middle of my turn he wanted to use his quick cast action.
    A card bound to your wand is equal to a card in your hand.  Under what circumstance can you cast a card from your hand during the other player's turn?   None I can think of.

Shad0w

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Re: Seeking Dispel
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2012, 11:14:23 AM »
Mine took so long to write Upgrayedd got in first  :lol:

This is turning into an argument rather than a discussion. So I am stepping in. This is the break down of how a few things work.

Enchantments
are always played facedown, and remain hidden from your opponent until you choose to reveal them. You can decide that you would like to reveal the enchantment so that it has an effect on the game right away. You declare that you are is revealing it, flip it face up, and pays the reveal cost

When Can You Reveal?
You can reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event in the game:

• At the end of any Phase of the game round.

• Immediately after a creature is activated, before it chooses its actions for the turn

• Immediately after a creature completes its move action, but before it takes a quick action.

• At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell.

• You can reveal an enchantment immediately after it is cast, right after the Resolve Spell Step. When an enchantment is “resolved” it is placed face down as a hidden enchantment. Then, immediately after it has resolved, you may choose to reveal it at the end of that Step.

• You cannot interrupt an event to reveal an enchantment.

I also did a full breakdown for Seeking Dispel and Jinx interact in this thread.

Below I am listing the most important section of that thread.

Quote from: "Shad0w" post=1483
Rather than this turning into a flame war lets look at what Bryan said.
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=1412
Thanks for the compliment!

This is a really good question!

Okay, here is how this is resolved:

Casting a spell has 3 steps:
1) Cast Spell
2) Counter Spell
3) Resolve Spell

When Seeking Dispel is cast, as part of Step 1 it prevents the target enchantment from revealing.
When Step 2 is reached, the Jinx has already been locked down and cannot be revealed.  
So, the Jinx is destroyed without being revealed.

The wording on these 2 spells conflict each other, because Jinx says "must".  In cases like this where 2 equal events happen which conflict, we first default to the time sequence for resolution.  In which case we default to the first event that occurred - the Seeking Dispel preventing the revealing.  

In Mage Wars, everything happens in order, in sequence, and whenever possible we resolve conflicts in sequence, with later events not being able to change prior events.  

In rare cases, when using time sequence does not work, we default to the Initiative order, and let the player with initiative decide (that makes it easy and fullproof!   :) )

Hope this helps!

Shad0w Wrote:
So lets brake it down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1: Cast Spell
Announce that you are casting a spell and what the target will be.

You may only choose a target that matches the target requirements listed in the casting line.

Some spells will target a zone on the game board. Other spells will target
a single object.

Pay the cost(s) of the spell

Step 2: Counter Spell
Once the spell has been cast, your opponent has a chance to “counter” it. Normally, there is nothing your opponent can do, and the spell simply takes effect.

However, some spells and abilities, such as the Nullify enchantment, may allow him to counter your spell.

When a spell is countered it is discarded without effect, and you lose the mana spent and any action used to cast the spell (unless the spell or ability which counters says otherwise).

Step 3: Resolve Spell
At this point, the spell takes effect.

The spell type (e.g., conjuration) and the text on the spell card determine the effects of the spell. If you have cast an attack spell, you must now resolve the attack.

When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell is no longer valid (has moved or changed), then the spell is countered.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The trick is Seeking Dispel has text that applies on cast other text that applies on resolution. Jinx applies the "Must" reveal after the spell is cast. So Seeking Dispels "can not be revealed" text is already in effect.

I hope this helps


So If you reveal any enchant before you pass to your opponent they could not respond with Seeking Dispel BUT once Seeking Dispel has been cast you can not reveal the targeted enchantment. You can however reveal a different enchantment.

As Far as dual wielding goes I posted this a while ago. Check it out

Quote from: "Shad0w" post=267
Quote from: "Mestrahd" post=264
I see the picture of a Mage Wand [spoiler]
[attachment=11]MageWand.JPG[/attachment][/spoiler]in the rulebook has the slots weapon OR shield. So I assume Elemental Wand has the same slots. Can you have a Mage Wand in one hand and an Elemental Wand in the other? ZZAP BZZZAP!


Shad0w Wrote:
In the base set we have a few items that use the shield or weapon slot. Remember that you can have 1 item equipped to each slot. On the Elemental Wand [spoiler][attachment=12]ElementalWand.JPG[/attachment][/spoiler]it has Weapon or shield listed. Because they each can go into either slot you could dual wield them.  Remember that you can never have 2 of the same card face up attached to any object in the arena including a mage. But if an item like a long bow [spoiler]
[attachment=13]IvariumLongbow.JPG[/attachment]
[/spoiler]had weapon and shield listed you could not equip any thing else to those slots.


So the short answer would be yes you can dual wield just not the same item.

I hope that helps
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