June 20, 2019, 06:55:45 PM

Author Topic: Dragon's Breath target options  (Read 1289 times)

Zuberi

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2018, 07:01:41 PM »
So, it is slightly pertinent to DaveW's question, though his question doesn't hinge on it, but I do want to answer the debate regarding LOS really quick. wtcannonjr is correct that you only have to check LOS when targeting something. Not necessarily when checking range. If Kharhaz will reread the quote from page 17, it says "When you count range to your target you must also check to see if you have clear LOS." I'm not thinking of anything off the top of my head that cares about range and doesn't target something though. Every spell has a target, guaranteed. So this might really be a moot point.

Now, regarding DaveW's question, the important thing here is actually regarding the source of the second attack. The source is still the caster. Unlike Chain Lightning, it is not bouncing from the first target to the second. Instead, like the card says, it is more like a sweeping attack, wherein both attacks come from the caster who is just catching multiple targets in this jet of flame. Be it because the flame is so wide/long, or because the caster pivots and redirects, that's up to your thematic imagination.

But mechanically, you basically are making two attacks coming from the caster, one after the other. A wall between those two targets doesn't matter. However, if there was a wall between the caster and one of the targets, that may stop it because LOS from the caster does matter. Because you have to target them.

I hope that makes sense. I'm a little sicky atm.

Arkdeniz

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 04:57:36 AM »
DaveW,

With tongue in cheek and a wink to a somewhat infamous discussion about the exact size and dimensions of walls, it might be said that if you are looking basically straight down along a wall (as in your example), then perhaps the wall has close to zero depth (as the zone border it sits on does), and your dragon's breath will just treat the wall as not there at all...

;)


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Kharhaz

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2018, 10:05:28 AM »
My bad DaveW, I was focused on the LoS blocking bit at the end.


Apologies for resurrecting the thread, but the previous discussion may be helpful in considering my follow-up:

Assume that the caster of Dragon's Breath is in the near center (B2), and that there is a valid target in D2, and another in D3 (i.e. both D2 and D3 are in LoS and have a creature or conjuration in each). Also assume that there is a wall between D2 and D3.

May Dragon's Breath make its attack against the target in D2, and then bypass the wall between D2 and D3 to attack the target in D3? (RAW it seems so... the second target is one zone farther away... but you would think that the wall might "get in the way" of the breath.)

Does it matter what the wall's characteristics (blocks LoS, passage attacks, blocks passage) are in this particular case? I would not think so... which again makes me wonder about how the breath would bypass a steel wall to get behind it and attack the second target.... (It feels like another magical Tsunami effect, flowing over the wall, which still makes no sense to me.)

In your example, D2 and D3 are both legal targets from B3, so the LoS block between D2 and D3 doesn't matter.

Chain Lighting is similar, but the wording on CL is that the source changes, so LoS is drawn from the creature just damaged by CL, not the mage. Dragon's Breath states that it functions like a sweeping attack, and the source doesn't change, so it is always the mage.

If it helps the flame blast is a huge fire blast that hits two zones and not a fire spell that bounces from target to target, that's the idea they were going for.

For clarification, Tsunami gets around walls by never having to target a zone after the first one, the effect just happens and resolves.



DaveW

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2018, 10:56:11 PM »
Thanks guys... it makes more sense to me now. The idea of "pivoting" really helped me understand the concept.
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Kaarin

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 10:38:53 AM »
Can Dragon's Breath make 90 degree turn? I thought that one zone away would follow same rules as push's 'away'.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Dragon's Breath target options
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 12:16:27 PM »
Can Dragon's Breath make 90 degree turn? I thought that one zone away would follow same rules as push's 'away'.

Yes it can.

X | Y | D
A | B | C

If the mage is casting it at a creature in zone X, for example, then all of the conditions are true for the second attack to hit a creature in zone Y.

Is the new target in an adjacent zone?
Is the new target 1 zone farther away?
Are both the targets within range of the spell?