December 12, 2018, 06:11:47 AM

Author Topic: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)  (Read 978 times)

stevenjackson121

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 08:45:55 AM »
I'd love to have the interaction between Explode and Armor Ward/Anvil Throne Warlord runes explicitly clarified.

The interpretation that my friends and I have universally agreed on is that if you successfully cast Explode, then an effect prevents the equipment destruction, that does NOT prevent the attack from occurring.

Nothing in the rules text for Explode indicates that the attack is conditional on the item actually being destroyed, it just has "Effect 1, then Effect 2".

However, thematically that doesn't sit well with us. We previously assumed the attack is the result of the item destruction (since it comes after, the spell is an incantation, etc.), but now they seem totally unrelated. If e.g. Forcefield blocks the attack (works on Unavoidable attacks unless I'm mistaken), that doesn't prevent the destruction. If the destruction is blocked via a rune, that doesn't prevent the attack.  :'(

Kharhaz

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2018, 11:00:39 AM »
I'd love to have the interaction between Explode and Armor Ward/Anvil Throne Warlord runes explicitly clarified.

The interpretation that my friends and I have universally agreed on is that if you successfully cast Explode, then an effect prevents the equipment destruction, that does NOT prevent the attack from occurring.

Nothing in the rules text for Explode indicates that the attack is conditional on the item actually being destroyed, it just has "Effect 1, then Effect 2".

However, thematically that doesn't sit well with us. We previously assumed the attack is the result of the item destruction (since it comes after, the spell is an incantation, etc.), but now they seem totally unrelated. If e.g. Forcefield blocks the attack (works on Unavoidable attacks unless I'm mistaken), that doesn't prevent the destruction. If the destruction is blocked via a rune, that doesn't prevent the attack.  :'(

"When you cast explode, choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. X = 6+ the equipment's casting cost. Destroy the chosen equipment. Then, Explode makes the above flame attack against the target mage."

Lets cover the full spectrum of options for clarity.
Harshforge plate effect adds to the casting cost of explode. So it would be X = 6 + casting cost + 2. If they cannot pay then it does not happen. Simple enough

You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Just nit picking here but it is not an (effect 1, then, effect 2). It's the explode effect (destroy item, then, make attack). It's all one effect of the spell so you have to stop the entire thing to prevent both interactions.



Kelanen

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 11:51:40 AM »
I'd love to have the interaction between Explode and Armor Ward/Anvil Throne Warlord runes explicitly clarified.

The interpretation that my friends and I have universally agreed on is that if you successfully cast Explode, then an effect prevents the equipment destruction, that does NOT prevent the attack from occurring.

Nothing in the rules text for Explode indicates that the attack is conditional on the item actually being destroyed, it just has "Effect 1, then Effect 2".

It IS explicitly clarified in the FAQ document (p31 - Explode entry). And it works the way you think it should - preventing the destruction, prevents the damage.

When you say 'you would like something explicitly clarified' it behoves you to do a cursory check first... Most such things have been clarified or ruled - years ago...

You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Sorry Kharhaz - wrong answer.

Quote from: FAQ 'Explode' entry
The explode attack is dependent on destroying the equipment. If for some reason the equipment is not destroyed, there will be no
attack
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 11:56:21 AM by Kelanen »

Kharhaz

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »
You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Sorry Kharhaz - wrong answer.

Quote from: FAQ 'Explode' entry
The explode attack is dependent on destroying the equipment. If for some reason the equipment is not destroyed, there will be no
attack


Ya that will do it. Thx for digging that up Kelanen

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 04:52:59 PM »
You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Sorry Kharhaz - wrong answer.

Quote from: FAQ 'Explode' entry
The explode attack is dependent on destroying the equipment. If for some reason the equipment is not destroyed, there will be no
attack


Ya that will do it. Thx for digging that up Kelanen
^^

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 04:54:36 PM »
Anyone have any ideas for making academy card interactions more clear in Arena? Some of the cards can be kind of confusing sometimes because of the different game terms.

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 06:14:31 AM »
Anyone have any ideas for making academy card interactions more clear in Arena? Some of the cards can be kind of confusing sometimes because of the different game terms.

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The cleanest approach would be to update the Arena Rules Supplement. I would include a separate section to cover the Academy/Arena rules & cards interactions, but these could be combined within the current structure of the Supplement.
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Kelanen

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 04:39:44 AM »
Anyone have any ideas for making academy card interactions more clear in Arena? Some of the cards can be kind of confusing sometimes because of the different game terms.
The cleanest approach would be to update the Arena Rules Supplement. I would include a separate section to cover the Academy/Arena rules & cards interactions, but these could be combined within the current structure of the Supplement.

Agreed. The FAQ, and maybe the Codex need to have Academy terms in there, defined as how they work in Arena, and spelling out how they differ from the usual Arena terms.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 06:55:38 AM by Kelanen »

exid

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2018, 01:09:10 PM »
Anyone have any ideas for making academy card interactions more clear in Arena? Some of the cards can be kind of confusing sometimes because of the different game terms.

i play the academy cards "as written" and there is no rule problem... but i meet bad situations...
to eliminate them, it would be necessary to "errate" a lot of cards: gain of life that should be regenerate, defences that should trigger during defence step, etc.

Kelanen

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2018, 06:56:55 AM »
No rule problems or none that you are aware of? Try looking at things like Attack vs Attack Action...

But yes there is a lot of doubling up with non-keyworded abilities stacking with keyworded abilities. I don't think any of the instances are game-breaking, but it's still something that shouldn't have happened on principle.

exid

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »
No rule problems or none that you are aware of?
well... i can only speek for what i'm aware of!

Try looking at things like Attack vs Attack Action...
is there a particular problem of attack/attack actions with academy cards?

Kelanen

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2018, 09:58:04 AM »
is there a particular problem of attack/attack actions with academy cards?

'Problem' perhaps depends on your point of view, but yes the terms behave differently, and some cards from Academy behave other than how you'd expect sometimes.

exid

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Re: Rules Cleanup (The Mage Wars Community Self-Management Project)
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2018, 12:12:02 PM »
is there a particular problem of attack/attack actions with academy cards?
'Problem' perhaps depends on your point of view, but yes the terms behave differently, and some cards from Academy behave other than how you'd expect sometimes.
can you give me examples? (i always prefer to think before the game than discovering the problem during the game!)