October 17, 2018, 06:58:03 AM

Author Topic: enchantments  (Read 284 times)

exid

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enchantments
« on: August 19, 2018, 09:35:40 AM »
i can't find the answer to that: can a player cast an enchantment on an object that allready has the same enchantment revealed from the other player?

zot

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 10:39:47 AM »
the short answer is no.  you cannot knowingly attach an object to an object that has the same name already  attached.

   so if a zone has a zone enchant (revealed or not) and you somehow know what that spell is, you cannot then cast the same enchantment on that zone. replace the word zone with any object. another example would be two conjurations of the same name attached to the same object is the same thing also cannot happen.  for instance you cannot have 2 tanglevines on same creature,  two swords of dancing not allowed on the same mage, etc.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 10:42:44 AM by zot »

exid

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 01:22:56 PM »
i allways played it this way, but in the rules (page 18) it's written that both player could attach the same enchantment to an object (no mention of revealed or hidden)...
hence, as i read it, a player could cast the same enchantment as an opponent's revealed enchantment. the new enchantment would be destroyed when revealed, but it can be useful as a bluff.

DaveW

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 08:37:29 PM »
i allways played it this way, but in the rules (page 18) it's written that both player could attach the same enchantment to an object (no mention of revealed or hidden)...
hence, as i read it, a player could cast the same enchantment as an opponent's revealed enchantment. the new enchantment would be destroyed when revealed, but it can be useful as a bluff.

I am guessing that you are mentioning this:

<begin quote>
Enchantments are “attached” to their targets. There is no limit to the number of different enchantments that can be attached to an object or zone. However, there can never be more than one revealed enchantment with the same name attached to the same object or zone at the same time. Also, you cannot attach a second hidden enchantment that has the same name to an object or zone that you have already attached a matching enchantment to, whether revealed or hidden. For example, there cannot be two Wolf Fury enchantments attached to your creature.
<end quote>

It appears that this takes care of the following:
Multiple enchantments of different names, either revealed or not, by either or both players
Multiple revealed enchantments of the same name by either or both players
Multiple enchantments of the same name by one player, one of which must be hidden due to the point above
  (due to the use of my bold-faced "you" words)

What it apparently does not forbid (as written) is one hidden enchantment of the same name as a revealed or hidden enchantment attached by the other player.

However, the example provided seems to exclude two of the same enchantments attached by one or both players, whether revealed or not... which would cover this apparent oversight in the detail before the example.

It could be more clearly written, but I think that the example is enough to better understand the intent.
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zot

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 11:50:28 PM »

   hence my stating the word:  knowingly

exid

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 11:52:01 PM »
"It  is  possible that  both  players  may  attach  an  identical  enchantment  to the same target. If an enchantment is revealed on an object which   already   has   an   identical   revealed   enchantment attached to it, the newly-revealed enchantment is destroyed without effect."

rulles can't forbid 2 players to attach the same hidden enchantment (they don't know what the other player has cast). the question is how this situation is treated.
as written, the 2 enchantments stay on the object/zone until both are revealed.

that makes possible:
1) you have a revealed bear strength on your bear, i can cast another one (hidden) making you think it's a nullify that will forbid you to teleport your bear
2) you have a hidden bear strength on your bear, i cast another one (hidden), when you reveal yours, i can dispel it and reveal mine. (i can't think now of a better example... sorry)

is that right?

Kharhaz

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 09:15:40 AM »

that makes possible:
1) you have a revealed bear strength on your bear, i can cast another one (hidden) making you think it's a nullify that will forbid you to teleport your bear
2) you have a hidden bear strength on your bear, i cast another one (hidden), when you reveal yours, i can dispel it and reveal mine. (i can't think now of a better example... sorry)

is that right?

No.

1. If the opponent has a revealed bear strength, it is an illegal move for you to place your hidden bear strength on it. You know it's a duplicate and that is not allowed.

2. When the opponents bear strength is resolved, you can leave your bear strength hidden, and reveal it when there is no longer a bear strength on the creature. If you decide to reveal the bear strength, you destroy the newer copy.


FAQ has it laid out well:

Duplicate Enchantments
When an enchantment is revealed, if it is attached to an object or zone which already has a revealed enchantment with the same name attached to that same object or zone, the newly revealed enchantment is immediately discarded without effect. Players cannot cast an enchantment which targets a zone or object if there is either (a) a friendly hidden enchantment with the same name attached to that zone or object, or (b) a revealed enchantment with the same name (friendly or enemy) attached to that zone or object.

 Note that it is possible to attach a duplicate enchantment to the same zone or object as an opponent’s hidden enchantment. This would be unintentional or accidental, because you will not know that the duplication exists. Later, if the enemy hidden enchantment is revealed, you will realize that you have attached a duplicate enchantment to the same object. When this occurs, you may leave the duplicate enchantment in play as a hidden enchantment. If you later reveal that enchantment while the duplicate is still attached, you will have to destroy and discard the newer copy which you just revealed without it having any effect.

When you reveal an enchantment, you only discard it without effect if there is another revealed enchantment of the same name attached to that zone or object. A hidden enchantment of the same name does not cause you to discard the newly revealed enchantment.

Arkdeniz

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 01:33:45 AM »
Side question but relevant:

In a three-player domination match, two players separately put a face down Nullify on the third.

This third player then declares a cast of Teleport on herself.

Do both of the other players have to reveal their Nullifies? Or is it a case of whoever physically does it first, or is it based on initiative?

Am curious.
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Biblofilter

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 02:03:52 AM »
Well they can´t, cause the first Nullify would get triggered when the second is put on.

But if the second is put on with Enchantment Transfusion, then:

Yes i believe both would have to be revealed and the optional rvl cost being payed in ini order.
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exid

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Re: enchantments
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 02:09:49 PM »
i read the rules again... seems clear now... sorry for the inconvenience.