February 19, 2019, 01:07:31 AM

Author Topic: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees  (Read 1968 times)

farkas1

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 07:29:09 AM »
I will change the wording but I listed those as multi attacks.  And put them up on the counters list along with my are listings of cards for counters.  Triple and double strike are very effective and are very strong counters to swarms.  Note you need Gravikor or eagle wings to kill the bees with many of the creatures who have these traits
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 07:41:24 AM by farkas1 »
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Arkdeniz

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2018, 10:03:24 PM »
I will change the wording but I listed those as multi attacks.  And put them up on the counters list along with my are listings of cards for counters.  Triple and double strike are very effective and are very strong counters to swarms.  Note you need Gravikor or eagle wings to kill the bees with many of the creatures who have these traits

Youíd quite possibly need a push or teleport as well, since many double/triple strikers are slow, and the double/triple strike is a full round action. Without such things the Swarm could just keep moving away...
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Jbuzzsaw79

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 08:06:12 AM »
Force push don't work on them they way I read it but dose force wave? Yes since hit everything in zone?

Puddnhead

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2018, 09:17:07 PM »
The pushes and ports are for the triple striker.
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zot

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2018, 02:13:14 PM »
the Lifetree does not work to increase health. the swarms have the finite life trait and cannot gain life. nor can they be healed for the same reason.


jacksmack

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2018, 02:51:05 PM »
the Lifetree does not work to increase health. the swarms have the finite life trait and cannot gain life. nor can they be healed for the same reason.

innate life bypasses the finite life trait

shoopufff

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2019, 07:18:25 AM »
Hey, just read the post and I believe the part about defenses is incorrect. I dug up an old forum post from Arcanus (The game creator) which stated that additional strikes are extremely good against defenses which would make swarms explicitly good against them because the defense only applies to the first attack (as Farkas noted about reverse attack but seemed to suggest defenses were a good counter?).

Here is the relevant portion of the quote for those curious:



The short answer is that Reverse Attack only bounces back the very first individual attack or strike.  It will not affect additional strikes or attacks. 

This is also realistic;  The Reverse Attack is a force bubble that bounces the first attack back.  After that attack is bounced, it is destroyed.  SO, successive attacks or strikes, after the first one, are not bounced back.  As much as possible, we try to make Mage Wars realistic and intuitive, unless it overly adds complication.

Creatures with doublestrike or triplestrike are very effective against Defenses, because only the first attack or strike is affected.  Block and Reverse Attack are also a Defense and work the same way, which keeps them consistent.

Now, here is the long explanation, in case anyone is interested!   :)

An attack action is a creature action (quick or full) used to make an attack. Sometimes the attack action will be an individual attack, or it might comprise multiple separate attacks (also referred to as "strikes").  Each individual attack in that action is called an attack sequence

For example, double strike, triplestrike, and sweeping are one attack action (always a full action), but have multiple attack sequences.  Some attacks do not follow all of the steps of the attack sequence.  For example, the second attack sequence of a Doublestrike attack action, skips the Declare Attack Step and only has 3 steps.

Defenses, like Block and Reverse Attack, only affect one attack sequence.

When an attacker (which we will call Creature A) attacks the creature enchanted with Reverse Attack (which we will call Creature B), Reverse Attack must be revealed during the Avoid Attack Step. If the Reverse Attack effect occurs, the remainder of Creature A's attack sequence is canceled, and instead Creature B must immediately make an identical attack sequence targeting Object A. This reversed attack sequence is then resolved as normal.

If Object A's original attack action consisted of multiple attack sequences (doublestrike triplestrike, sweeping, etc.), Object A picks up the series of attack sequences where it left off after reversing the first sequence.


farkas1

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2019, 08:34:24 AM »
Yep I donít know if I implied the whole attack or every attack is avoided but it does apply to the first buffed up strike if the swarm opponent was to hand of bim +1 melee, scout +1 melee ect.  So yea they are not as effective but to avoid one attack from the bee attack Cycle is really good. 

On that note Iím going to make an up dated list and edit and post it back here further down on this page.  I Played a bee swarm book at Winter War and it was quite effective.  I took 2nd and almost had first place worn 3 life and 5 life  left to  my opponent at several times in The match.  So I will do a write up and notes of the bees. 
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shoopufff

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2019, 08:15:58 PM »
Yeah that's fair, it would be useful against buffed up first attacks but overall, if they are going swarm it's quite likely they will have more than one and unless you have an infinite defense, it will still only reduce a small amount of incoming damage.

I would argue that killing the things that make them strong (Straywood scout / marked for death / etherian lifetree) would be more beneficial than trying to get defenses overall.

In that regard I think your best bet is to get into the zone where these things are congregated and prepare a zone attack like you suggested because those seem to be the most effective way to deal with swarms as you said. But of course, the enemy mage using swarms will be aware of that too and try to thwart you.

Also, congrats on the tournament, looking forward to the update!

Puddnhead

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2019, 09:10:51 AM »
SANDSTORM is now META!
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DaveW

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Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2019, 10:39:44 AM »
SANDSTORM is now META!

I did use Sandstorm to take out two swarms at Winter War 2. I wish I had put two in my book.
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