December 19, 2018, 03:49:57 AM

Author Topic: A little love for the Swamp  (Read 391 times)

DaveW

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A little love for the Swamp
« on: December 02, 2018, 07:27:30 AM »
Has anyone used Swamp much? I happened to have it in a book that I played Friday night... Saturday morning... depending on what time it happened.

My opponent cast a little invisible Force dude with Elusive through a Minds Eye in my zone. I panicked thinking that I had no counter. You can't target the stupid thing without a zone attack or the like... and I had a bunch of Zombies in the zone... I'd have to put everyone in the zone on guard just to be able to kill it (or accept that it was going to get attacks in with impunity until it dissipated).

Then I read the details on the Swamp spell during Spell Prep. Get's rid of Elusive... so now he has to go against guards... cool. Then I also saw that it makes all Creatures slow... so other creatures entering the zone can't attack on the same turn... even better. Then I realized that I was playing a FM with his annoying Force Pull ability and that the Swamp keeps my Creatures from being pulled out of the zone... I'm sold. Send me a dozen.

Maybe it was just a niche application that night... but I'm wondering whether anyone else may have any Swamp success stories. If so, with which Mage? I was playing a Necro that time.

Anyone?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 07:30:46 AM by DaveW »
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wtcannonjr

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2018, 08:44:57 AM »
I have an Arena Druid spellbook that uses Swamp and Elephant Grass along with a Shoalsdeep Crocodile. The Academy Druid has some additional spells that should combo nicely with this terrain, but I have not updated my spellbooks yet.

The Swamp spell also combines with the Whirlpool for added damage and restricting movement. The Druid is the only mage fully trained in the Swamp spell so I primarily use it with that mage. However, it also fits with Siren strategies and has general application for other mages as you point out above.
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SirJasonCrage

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 10:53:41 AM »
Johktari can walk into swamp and still act.

She also has synergies with crocs and falcons, who don't care about swamp.

Not getting Pulled is also a nice thing if you have a bow equipped and want to stay away. If you place two swamps in the center zones you can walk from one to the other and basically make melees worthless.

DaveW

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 09:50:29 AM »
One thing that I didnt note earlier, is that having Slow from the swamp doesn't impede Zombies when using Zombie Frenzie.
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Kelanen

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 05:34:09 PM »
Also remember anything can walk out of the swamp and act normally...

Swamp would see a lot more use if Steep Hill didn't exist. It's not a bad card at all, but it needs specific combos, the hill is generally better to slow offense.

DaveW

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 09:07:53 PM »
Also remember anything can walk out of the swamp and act normally...

Swamp would see a lot more use if Steep Hill didn't exist. It's not a bad card at all, but it needs specific combos, the hill is generally better to slow offense.

So the Slow only lasts while in the Swamp... I don't get how this works.
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iNano78

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 08:12:40 AM »
Also remember anything can walk out of the swamp and act normally...

Swamp would see a lot more use if Steep Hill didn't exist. It's not a bad card at all, but it needs specific combos, the hill is generally better to slow offense.

So the Slow only lasts while in the Swamp... I don't get how this works.

If a non-Fast creature moves into the Swamp, it's turn ends (e.g. can't take a quick action after movement). But a creature can double-move into a Swamp, whereas it can't double-move into Steep Hill. (Also a Fast creature can't move into a Steep Hill and follow up with a Quick action, whereas it could into a Swamp since it would merely lose Fast). Similarly, a creature can get Pushed into a Swamp, but not out of it.
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Zuberi

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 02:01:02 AM »
Perfect explanation from iNano78.

zot

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 09:32:12 PM »
zuberi !!


DaveW

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 11:04:56 PM »
Perfect explanation from iNano78.

Except that my confusion is on what happens when a creature leaves the swamp... not enters it.

EDIT: To make it more clear... my question revolves around the "loss" of Slow upon exiting the Swamp. The Creature then is considered "normal" (i.e. no longer slowed)... so could it then take a second move or attack, etc. in the new zone?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:10:08 PM by DaveW »
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Kharhaz

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 09:24:34 AM »
Perfect explanation from iNano78.

Except that my confusion is on what happens when a creature leaves the swamp... not enters it.

EDIT: To make it more clear... my question revolves around the "loss" of Slow upon exiting the Swamp. The Creature then is considered "normal" (i.e. no longer slowed)... so could it then take a second move or attack, etc. in the new zone?

From the slow condition:

"If this creature takes a move action, its
Action Phase immediately ends. It does not get to take a quick action
after moving."

So if you take a move action while you have the slow condition, that action ends immediatley after the move action.

Zuberi

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 10:41:14 AM »
Sorry DaveW for not addressing that concern. Basically it's a question of when do you check for the slow trait ending the creature's action. I don't think it's made it into the supplement, but the decision is at the end of the move action. That way if something gains slow mid move it still affects them, as opposed to checking when they begin their move action.

Another option would be a constant check, but that doesn't feel right for cases in which it is removed mid move. For example, you start your move action, and your opponent reveals Enfeeble. Well, now you're slowed. You then reveal Cheetah Speed. That cancels it out and you're not slowed. By the time you end your movement, should you have lost your quick action due to being Slowed for just a microsecond? No. That would defeat the entire point of the counterplay.

So, bringing that in to the situation of leaving the Swamp, you lose the slow trait before ending your movement. Thus it doesn't negatively affect you.

Kharhaz

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 04:52:11 PM »
Sorry DaveW for not addressing that concern. Basically it's a question of when do you check for the slow trait ending the creature's action. I don't think it's made it into the supplement, but the decision is at the end of the move action. That way if something gains slow mid move it still affects them, as opposed to checking when they begin their move action.

Another option would be a constant check, but that doesn't feel right for cases in which it is removed mid move. For example, you start your move action, and your opponent reveals Enfeeble. Well, now you're slowed. You then reveal Cheetah Speed. That cancels it out and you're not slowed. By the time you end your movement, should you have lost your quick action due to being Slowed for just a microsecond? No. That would defeat the entire point of the counterplay.

So, bringing that in to the situation of leaving the Swamp, you lose the slow trait before ending your movement. Thus it doesn't negatively affect you.


I don't disagree with logic, but the wording of takes leads me to think that the slow "effect" is present when you TAKE that action, regardless of whether or not the condition remains at the end of the move action, and at any time during that action.

In your example, you have the opportunity to reveal the speed before the slow resolved. Split second slowing is nothing new. You can Enchantment Transfusion an enfeeble for a "microsecond" slow.

I always understood it as the difference between takes and action vs took an action. Mid-move is taking an action whereas if it said took a move action then it would only check at the end of the action.



DaveW

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 06:43:06 PM »
Thanks for chatting about it... I look forward to your esteemed decision.
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Kelanen

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Re: A little love for the Swamp
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2018, 07:41:37 AM »
I look forward to your esteemed decision.

The decisions was made a year or more ago. It's just not made it in to print, which is down to AW.