June 20, 2019, 06:37:03 PM

Author Topic: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?  (Read 419 times)

Arkdeniz

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Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« on: January 03, 2019, 08:15:37 PM »
Yes, I know Gate to Hell is a trash card. But...

when you open it, it makes an attack 'against each non-flying creature in the arena'.

Does that attack count as a Zone Attack for the purposes of damaging a) invisible creatures and b) swarms?

I know per RAW it does not say it is a Zone Attack and therefore Invisible and Swarm creatures might not suffer from the full effect.

But it is an otherwise sui generis Arena Attack. The entire place is filled with the fires of hell, from which there is no hiding, no cover. (As the supplement says "These attacks do not require LoS as the gate is filling the entire board with the arena wide attack") 

I am pretty sure that Invisible creatures get hit, but would the Swarm take full damage?
 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 08:20:35 PM by Arkdeniz »
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Puddnhead

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 09:18:03 PM »
Hooray! Another Swarm loophole.  The way Gate is written is that it is an un-targeted attack against all creatures. Therefore it hits all creatures, but I would say that the way the Swarm trait is written (RAW) it only does a maximum of one damage to them. I would love to be wrong about this.
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iNano78

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 09:53:38 AM »
Hooray! Another Swarm loophole.  The way Gate is written is that it is an un-targeted attack against all creatures. Therefore it hits all creatures, but I would say that the way the Swarm trait is written (RAW) it only does a maximum of one damage to them. I would love to be wrong about this.

Technically, there is no RAW for Swarms in Arena, so I guess it's up to Arena players to agree on rules for Academy for each of the new keywords and traits (e.g. Frost, Defrost, Swarm, Potion equipment, Breeches equipment).
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Kharhaz

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 06:30:44 PM »
Hooray! Another Swarm loophole.  The way Gate is written is that it is an un-targeted attack against all creatures. Therefore it hits all creatures, but I would say that the way the Swarm trait is written (RAW) it only does a maximum of one damage to them. I would love to be wrong about this.

Technically, there is no RAW for Swarms in Arena, so I guess it's up to Arena players to agree on rules for Academy for each of the new keywords and traits (e.g. Frost, Defrost, Swarm, Potion equipment, Breeches equipment).

First, the Academy rules are RAW for Arena. No need to spread misinformation.


Secondly, Gate to Hell, as Puddin pointed out, is an attack that is untyped. It has no symbol to determine the type of attack that it is (ranged, melee, or zone) so creatures with the swarm trait will recieve 1 damage as the G2H is not a zone attack.



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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 09:37:24 PM »
Hooray! Another Swarm loophole.  The way Gate is written is that it is an un-targeted attack against all creatures. Therefore it hits all creatures, but I would say that the way the Swarm trait is written (RAW) it only does a maximum of one damage to them. I would love to be wrong about this.

Technically, there is no RAW for Swarms in Arena, so I guess it's up to Arena players to agree on rules for Academy for each of the new keywords and traits (e.g. Frost, Defrost, Swarm, Potion equipment, Breeches equipment).

First, the Academy rules are RAW for Arena. No need to spread misinformation.


Secondly, Gate to Hell, as Puddin pointed out, is an attack that is untyped. It has no symbol to determine the type of attack that it is (ranged, melee, or zone) so creatures with the swarm trait will recieve 1 damage as the G2H is not a zone attack.
I'm fine with your Gate to Hell interpretation, but I don't agree with your point about Academy rules as RAW for Arena. I agree with iNano on this point.

Do you have an official source as reference for your statement? This would help clarify several areas that currently are left to players to decide relative to differences in the rules. For example, if what you say is true, then the Pest trait in the 4th edition rulebook of Arena should be changed to the Academy version and included in the Codex and Rules Supplement.

I understand the position that AW has about Academy cards being compatible with Arena but to me this is different from saying all Academy rules are RAW for Arena. If that were the case, then we would need to remove the Planning Phase from Arena games to reflect Academy RAW.

A more concise integration of the product lines from a rules/supplement/card effects point of view would help all players and play testers.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2019, 10:00:52 PM »
Hooray! Another Swarm loophole.  The way Gate is written is that it is an un-targeted attack against all creatures. Therefore it hits all creatures, but I would say that the way the Swarm trait is written (RAW) it only does a maximum of one damage to them. I would love to be wrong about this.

Technically, there is no RAW for Swarms in Arena, so I guess it's up to Arena players to agree on rules for Academy for each of the new keywords and traits (e.g. Frost, Defrost, Swarm, Potion equipment, Breeches equipment).

First, the Academy rules are RAW for Arena. No need to spread misinformation.


Secondly, Gate to Hell, as Puddin pointed out, is an attack that is untyped. It has no symbol to determine the type of attack that it is (ranged, melee, or zone) so creatures with the swarm trait will recieve 1 damage as the G2H is not a zone attack.
I'm fine with your Gate to Hell interpretation, but I don't agree with your point about Academy rules as RAW for Arena. I agree with iNano on this point.

Do you have an official source as reference for your statement? This would help clarify several areas that currently are left to players to decide relative to differences in the rules. For example, if what you say is true, then the Pest trait in the 4th edition rulebook of Arena should be changed to the Academy version and included in the Codex and Rules Supplement.

I understand the position that AW has about Academy cards being compatible with Arena but to me this is different from saying all Academy rules are RAW for Arena. If that were the case, then we would need to remove the Planning Phase from Arena games to reflect Academy RAW.

A more concise integration of the product lines from a rules/supplement/card effects point of view would help all players and play testers.


Core Academy rules cleary states that the cards can be used for Arena. That would also include the text of the cards and their abilities.


You can make an argument that Academy pest is a different ability than Arena pest and Academy cards with Pest use the Academy version of pest, but you can't say that traits don't carry over; they cleary do infact.

DaveW

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 10:05:33 PM »
My understanding of Gate to Hell from previous discussions (years ago) was that the Gate had to have a line of sight to each creature being attacked, since that is part of declaring an attack.

Was that interpretation changed when GtH went from range = 2 zones to Arena-wide?
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Kharhaz

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2019, 10:18:38 PM »
My understanding of Gate to Hell from previous discussions (years ago) was that the Gate had to have a line of sight to each creature being attacked, since that is part of declaring an attack.

Was that interpretation changed when GtH went from range = 2 zones to Arena-wide?

It was.

The FAQ states that it is a special attack that does not require LoS

Zuberi

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Re: Is Gate to Hell a Zone Attack?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 09:20:58 AM »
There are significant differences between Academy and Arena. They are separate games. When using Academy cards in Arena, the actual Arena rules always take precedence. Such as the difference in the Pest trait. However, if there are no Arena specific rules for a given trait or ability, it is because they are supposed to work the same in both games. Differences should be detailed in updates to the rules supplement if they aren't detailed in the released Academy rules. Should be.