July 16, 2019, 03:47:33 PM

Author Topic: The Brutemaster  (Read 630 times)

Freeborn42

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The Brutemaster
« on: April 14, 2019, 05:09:51 PM »
Brute MasterA Forcemaster Stats Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBBA Forcemaster Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Enchantment2 x Chant of Rage1 x Bear Strength1 x Magebane1 x Rust3 x Redistributed Power2 x Poisoned Blood1 x Summoning Circle1 x Forcefield3 x Repulsion Field1 x Force Crush1 x Lesser Invisibility2 x Reverse Attack1 x Arcane Ward1 x Arcane Corruption1 x Mind Shield1 x Mind SeizeEquipment2 x Symbiotic Orb1 x Regrowth Belt1 x Force Ring1 x Elemental Wand1 x Galvitar, Force Blade1 x Leviathan Scale Armor1 x Psi-OrbAttack1 x Force Daggers1 x Acid Ball2 x Projected Palm2 x Force HammerConjuration1 x Tanglevine2 x Mind's Eye1 x Pillar of Righteous FlameCreature2 x Zombie Brute1 x Thoughtspore2 x Force GremlinIncantation1 x Seeking Dispel1 x Teleport3 x Dissolve1 x Force Push3 x Dispel1 x Sleep
Total cost: 120 pts

so here is the zombie brute Forcemaster book that I have now played some version of in 3 matches now against some very good players on OCTGN.
The result have been generally unsuccessful in the sense that they have all been losses, but they have also been very competitive matches. Leaving me in a spot of wondering; is the book the problem or is it my play? The answer is probably a little of both, but I'd love to hear some thought on the book and its general strategy.

---

The idea here is aggressively position my Brutes very early with the combination of mind's eye and summoning circle, making my opening look something like this.

T1:- move one space and cast Mind's eye FC
- QC magebane on opponent
T2: QC Summoning circle and summon brute.

from there I buff them and support them through the mind's eye while building my mage up and keep creeps away from me with CoR back to brutes and eventually force crush and other DoT dmg along with the brutes I win through control and more power.

---

at least that's the theory, but the results have been pretty damn mixed.
Redistribute power on the Brutes might be a clever idea but is possibly too action intensive and possibly unnecessary as it is.
the brutes have been taken down very quickly in almost all the games to this point and I actually just abandoned even summoning the 2nd one against Bilbo's Paladin.
the sbps for the brutes leaves my mage a little under powered imo it seems. I really struggle to lay down a lot of damage quickly which is weird for a FM, but it has been the case to this point.


I am all ears for advice on the book and ideas for improving my play.

Puddnhead

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 10:20:21 PM »
Hi Freeborn!
Love that you're experimenting with the best mage!

This book looks like it might suffer a little bit from lack of focus. Your opening is very similar to one that I run. In that book the purpose is to keep cycling the kinds of damage the enemy is facing so that they just can't keep up with them all.  It looks like it might be tough to keep the pressure up when you're buffing your own creatures using inefficient actions.  A better buff to 2 brutes might be a single marked for death.

With Forcemaster you need to prioritize action efficiency. You have plenty of mana to use once the fight engages. A single Steal Equipment is better than an Elemental Wand and a Dissolve (or 2 vs a War Mage). Often times people will run the resist armor that's in school for them.  This is excellent, because it will resist the damage they are capable of inflicting. For one action you can strip their defense and enhance your own.  These are the efficiencies you seek.  Another excellent example of action efficiency is Mind Control. For one quick action you have eliminated a threat for at least one round (two if they didn't prepare a dispel on the turn you reveal mind control)...and you've used up a precious dispel that they won't have to get rid of Force Crush or Forcefield (not to mention additional copies of any of these spells!) Best case scenario, you've spent fewer spellbook points than they have and curbed their offensive capabilities and added to yours! If only you could utilize Drain Life! Alas.  By the logic of action efficiency it might be better to make space for an Explode spore instead of a Dissolve one.  Blow up that leather for 8 mana and get some damage to boot.

By your play logs it looks as though you are both trying to keep your brutes alive long enough to benefit from buffs AND trying to use them to soak up attacks via Chant of Rage.  Zombie Brute is good, but far from invincible. It might be better to interpose some Force, Construct creatures to guard your brutes from retaliation. Replacing a gremlin and a Redistributed Power with a Tomb Guardian can provide a couple turns of "block" for your Brutes to do work. A Force Golem would be able to Stagger, reducing dice amounts from the enemy mage or his creatures.

The important thing is that you are on a clock and you will succumb to longer game mages if you don't play your actions more efficiently.  It doesn't matter how many spells you have left in your book at the end if the opponent is dead.  You should be looking to play about 60-90% of your book by the end of the game. Your greatest asset is that you have unparalleled prowess in the positioning game. You should be able to hit what you want to hit when you want to hit it and anything that prevents you from doing so is wasted book space. For that reason, I question Zombie Brute. Yes, 6 dice on a 10 health, resilient, under-costed creature is good, but you MUST attack a damaged target and that can be manipulated. Other contenders for good buddies are out there and they all have their drawbacks as well. Just make sure you are fully aware of what your chosen damage sources drawbacks are and mitigate them.

I'm interested to see how you tweak and experiment. I've got a lot of versions of FM and there are tons I haven't tried yet. Keep growing!
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Arkdeniz

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 07:59:55 AM »
Hey Puddnhead

Just wanted to say that I donít as a rule work well with Forcemasters, but there is some good advice here for most mages in general. Thanks!
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Puddnhead

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 08:37:05 AM »
Hey Puddnhead

Just wanted to say that I donít as a rule work well with Forcemasters, but there is some good advice here for most mages in general. Thanks!

Glad to help!
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Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 05:20:13 PM »
Thanks for the reply Puddinhead, lots to chew on there.

I think you're absolutely right about the lack of focus and general inefficiency at play here.

I choose the brutes for a few reasons for this book.
-I've never played them in any book so wanted to try something new
-choosing a buddy for the FM is always an interesting process but a general rule (for me at least) is using creeps that don't need a lot of support
-The FMs positioning prowess seems like a natural fit for the brutes biggest weakness (lumbering and kind of bloodthirsty)

It obviously remains to be seen what the overall effectiveness they have with the FM is (at least from my limited perspective), but you (and a few others) have already pointed out how I'm not very effectively taking advantage of the brutes strengths.

I'm curious how you're similar opening functions, or at least what similarities they share. Do you open with a circle and brute like I wrote above, or where do these strategies depart?

I'm also curious on your thoughts regarding action generators for the FM. More specifically, what factors do you tend to deliberate on when deciding between going battleforge or thoughtspore, or is going both ever really much of a consideration? Not asking you to build my book for me, its just that i often cant decide which would be more effective.

Ty
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:51:01 PM by Freeborn42 »

Puddnhead

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 11:24:41 AM »
I find it kind of funny that you chose Brutes because "they don't need a lot of support" (which is true), and then you choose to spend a lot of actions supporting them.  ::)  Using Force Pull to get a nice hit in with them is a very good plan. I think you'll have more success if you eliminate the Redistributed Power from your book because they are a waste of actions if you're plan is to engage fast and furious.  It's a good spell for a more slow and calculating book.

You ask about my similar Forcemaster opening, here's an iteration of the book in action on Tuesdays with Puddnhead 34: TWP 34

I also suffer greatly from split focus during spellbook construction. I've been trying to get better at focusing, but, as with anything, it just takes practice. So, when it comes to generating actions as the Forcemaster in particular, I think you need to have a vision for what you want to have when you start engaging with the opponent. This should be different depending on which mage is your opponent, by the way.  If you plan to have 4+ equipment items and engage as quickly as possible, then you'd better seriously consider Battleforge. If the bane of your strategy is a bunch of poison conditions, you will want to have a Purify Thoughtspore around and keep it as safe as you can.  It's always tricky to balance set-up actions (buffs you need to achieve your goals) with objective actions (that which actually fulfills the objective of killing the other mage).

I've tended to steer away from Battleforge recently, but I've been running Mind's Eye books and keeping my FM far away from the action until it finally catches up to me and then...surprise! Galvitar + Doublestrike.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:07:14 PM by Puddnhead »
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Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 11:45:48 AM »
I find it kind of funny that you chose Brutes because "they don't need a lot of support" (which is true), and then you choose to spend a lot of actions supporting them.  ::)

The irony wasn't lost on me haha

Quote
I've tended to steer away from Battleforge recently, but I've been running Mind's Eye books and keeping my FM far away from the action until it finally catches up to me and then...surprise! Galvitar + Doublestrike.

Hope that helps!

That kind of what the goal of this book has become (modifications will be updated on the soon), because I'm trying to do something different with the FM than I usually do.

Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 03:13:09 PM »
the brutemasterA Forcemaster Stats Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBBA Forcemaster Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Enchantment2 x Magebane1 x Rust1 x Forcefield1 x Force Crush2 x Reverse Attack3 x Arcane Ward1 x Arcane Corruption1 x Nullify1 x Mind Control1 x Summoning Circle1 x Mind Seize1 x Ghoul Rot1 x Marked for Death1 x PlaguedEquipment2 x Symbiotic Orb1 x Galvitar, Force Blade1 x Illusory Leggings1 x Dancing ScimitarAttack1 x Force Hammer1 x Acid Ball2 x Telekinetic Bolt1 x Hurl RockConjuration1 x Tanglevine3 x Mind's Eye1 x Enchanter's Wardstone1 x DeathlockCreature1 x Zombie Brute2 x Thoughtspore1 x Invisible StalkerIncantation1 x Seeking Dispel1 x Teleport1 x Force Push2 x Dispel1 x Sleep1 x Remove Curse1 x Steal Equipment1 x Explode1 x Dissolve
Total cost: 120 pts

latest version of the book, which just experienced it's very first win :)!

considering dropping marked for death and a few others to add a fireball or two, this book is lacking in finishers which has made things a little difficult.

the book also tends to suffer from a mana shortage, especially ones some of the upkeep cost are being paid out. not sure if that's something to look into addressing or accepting as an inherent weakness.

Reddicediaries

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2019, 07:24:05 AM »
the brutemasterA Forcemaster Stats Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBBA Forcemaster Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Enchantment2 x Magebane1 x Rust1 x Forcefield1 x Force Crush2 x Reverse Attack3 x Arcane Ward1 x Arcane Corruption1 x Nullify1 x Mind Control1 x Summoning Circle1 x Mind Seize1 x Ghoul Rot1 x Marked for Death1 x PlaguedEquipment2 x Symbiotic Orb1 x Galvitar, Force Blade1 x Illusory Leggings1 x Dancing ScimitarAttack1 x Force Hammer1 x Acid Ball2 x Telekinetic Bolt1 x Hurl RockConjuration1 x Tanglevine3 x Mind's Eye1 x Enchanter's Wardstone1 x DeathlockCreature1 x Zombie Brute2 x Thoughtspore1 x Invisible StalkerIncantation1 x Seeking Dispel1 x Teleport1 x Force Push2 x Dispel1 x Sleep1 x Remove Curse1 x Steal Equipment1 x Explode1 x Dissolve
Total cost: 120 pts

latest version of the book, which just experienced it's very first win :)!

considering dropping marked for death and a few others to add a fireball or two, this book is lacking in finishers which has made things a little difficult.

the book also tends to suffer from a mana shortage, especially ones some of the upkeep cost are being paid out. not sure if that's something to look into addressing or accepting as an inherent weakness.
Will comment more later.

1. Would cut marked for death for another rust; you are low on ways to deal with armor anyway and I find it a more generally useful card.
2. Plagued: This card is too expensive for me. For four spell book points, you might get a few points of damage (for one round only).
3. I miss ways of protecting the thoughtspores (glancing blow, lesser invisibility, brace yourself, etc).
4. I don't see any armor in this book. Relying on defenses is not enough, and even if you can kill them relatively quickly, playing without armor is too risky.

These are the initial impressions.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:33:04 PM by Reddicediaries »
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Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 02:44:02 PM »
Quote from: Reddicediaries link=topic=18881d
Will comment more later.

1. Would cut marked for death for another rust; you are low on ways to deal with armor anyway and I find it a more generally useful card.
2. Plagued: This card is too expensive for me. For four spell book points, you might get a few points of damage (for one round only).
3. I miss ways of protecting the thoughtspores (glancing blow, lesser invisibility, brace yourself, etc).
4. I don't see any armor in this book. Relying on defenses is not enough, and even if you can kill them relatively quickly, playing without armor is too risky.

These are the initial impressions.

1. MfD is certainly a candidate to be cut.  However, I have Rust, Steal equipment, dissolve, acid ball and explode as counter equipment/armor answers. A back up rust or even a second steal equipment isn't a bad idea tho because it answers two problems with one action.
2. Plagued has since been replaced with a back ghoul rot, although, the thought of enchanting my own Brute with plagued is really entertaining.
3. Thoughtspore protection is missing from this book, will look into making room for some.  Arcane ward is there for some protection tho.
4. Currently relying on steal equipment for armor if needed. Risky, yes but this book is meant to keep my FM away from the action. Until absolutely necessary and even then innate defense, symbiotic orb, force shield, and reverse attack provide a wealth of protection, even if they have counters

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 04:06:28 PM »
Alas you cannot cast Plagued on a Brute, as it has Poison Immunity.

I found that out back in the day when I tried to play the spell on Malacoda :(
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Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 04:17:09 PM »
Alas you cannot cast Plagued on a Brute, as it has Poison Immunity.

I found that out back in the day when I tried to play the spell on Malacoda :(

Ahhhh well, all the more reason I'm glad i cut it from my book

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2019, 06:45:17 AM »
Re: Mana Shortage

Consider Psi Orb along with Moonglow Amulet or Mediation Amulet.

Re: Lack of Closing Attack Spell

Consider another Force Hammer and swapping out of school spells for similar in school Attack spells from the Mind school. Especially if you plan to use Attack spells with your Thoughtspores. It seems you need to manage your mana in bursts for maximum effective so having a way to save mana for a few turns and then unleash a focused combination of attacks on specific targets would make the most sense.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2019, 09:00:48 AM »
Re: Mana Shortage

Consider Psi Orb along with Moonglow Amulet or Mediation Amulet.

Re: Lack of Closing Attack Spell

Consider another Force Hammer and swapping out of school spells for similar in school Attack spells from the Mind school. Especially if you plan to use Attack spells with your Thoughtspores. It seems you need to manage your mana in bursts for maximum effective so having a way to save mana for a few turns and then unleash a focused combination of attacks on specific targets would make the most sense.
Meditation amulet seems to go against what the build is designed to do.
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Freeborn42

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Re: The Brutemaster
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2019, 12:21:01 PM »
Quote
Meditation amulet seems to go against what the build is designed to do.

For one sbp it could be situationally useful