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Author Topic: Blue Gremlin and Teleport  (Read 20047 times)

nitrodavid

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2013, 06:11:15 PM »
if only they could rewrite the card to give it elusive while moving
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

sIKE

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2013, 06:43:34 PM »
I'm pretty sure I do have a real rules authority mate. As an an ambassador, judge, and writer of Mage Wars, it is kind of my job to know the rules. c:

The answer I have provided is the correct one. Since the Gremlin is using a move action to teleport, it is still considered a move action. As such, any effect that would disallow the move action or limit it is still in effect. Again, I post, for reference, the ability of the card in question:

When this creature is activated, you may pay 1 mana. If you do, Gremlin gains the Fast trait until the end of round, and each move action he takes this round is a Teleport to the next zone.


"Since the Gremlin is using a move action to teleport, it is still considered a move action."
Correct
As such, any effect that would disallow the move action or limit it is still in effect.
Correct
All his ability means is that if he does take a move action that turn, each move counts as him teleporting into that zone. It is still a move action, which, if the creature is restrained, it cannot do.
Correct

This makes no sense! The teleport action should have precedence over the move part of the action. The move piece should be there limit have far he can go (two zones). Zap out, Zap In, Zap Out, Zap In. Nothing to grab and hold on to, too be hindered by just puffs of smoke. 
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Tacullu64

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2013, 08:06:07 PM »
if only they could rewrite the card to give it elusive while moving

That would clear things up.

I think once they get a clarification in the FAQ it will be almost as good. At that point if anybody has a question we can just whip out the FAQ and say BG isn't hindered because it says so here.

DaveW

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2013, 09:07:11 PM »
I'm pretty sure I do have a real rules authority mate. As an an ambassador, judge, and writer of Mage Wars, it is kind of my job to know the rules.

I had no idea that you had these qualifications. There was some text on the side of your message that had some key words, but nothing indicated (to me) that you were either an author or a tournament judge.

I am just a lowly learner of the game, and I apologize.

I'll now go remove the BG's from my spellbooks... thanks.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 09:08:54 PM by DaveW »
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Shad0w

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2013, 10:18:35 PM »
I'm pretty sure I do have a real rules authority mate. As an an ambassador, judge, and writer of Mage Wars, it is kind of my job to know the rules. c:

The answer I have provided is the correct one. Since the Gremlin is using a move action to teleport, it is still considered a move action. As such, any effect that would disallow the move action or limit it is still in effect. Again, I post, for reference, the ability of the card in question:

When this creature is activated, you may pay 1 mana. If you do, Gremlin gains the Fast trait until the end of round, and each move action he takes this round is a Teleport to the next zone.


"Since the Gremlin is using a move action to teleport, it is still considered a move action."
Correct
As such, any effect that would disallow the move action or limit it is still in effect.
Correct
All his ability means is that if he does take a move action that turn, each move counts as him teleporting into that zone. It is still a move action, which, if the creature is restrained, it cannot do.
Correct

This makes no sense! The teleport action should have precedence over the move part of the action. The move piece should be there limit have far he can go (two zones). Zap out, Zap In, Zap Out, Zap In. Nothing to grab and hold on to, too be hindered by just puffs of smoke.


It has been ruled both ways Sike for example BG can break a tangle vine but can't escape cripple. Some of these things we have gone back and forth on. I can agree with you but I do not have final say. I have a bunch of stuff that needs to be cleaned up within the next few months.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 10:20:37 PM by Shad0w »
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Bjorne

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2013, 04:09:50 AM »
And the current ruling is that they are basically elusive?

Shad0w

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2013, 11:47:38 AM »
And the current ruling is that they are basically elusive?

Kind of. ::)
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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2013, 12:15:54 PM »
You would need to rewrite restrained, elusive, hindered, and  Blue Gremlin in order to make that happen. As it stands, because the card specifically states that the blue Gremlin makes a move action, he can still be hindered and restrained. For reference:

Hinder
If a creature begins its Action Phase in a zone with any
enemy creatures, or enters a zone occupied by an enemy
creature, it is hindered. A hindered creature may only move
1 zone during its Action Phase (even if it has the Fast trait).
Incapacitated, Restrained, or Pest creatures cannot hinder
movement.


Move Action
During its Action Phase a creature can take a move action,
which allows it to move one zone to an adjacent zone.
Afterwards it may take a quick action. (See “Movement” on
page 13.)


Restrained
If a creature is Restrained, it cannot take any move actions.


It goes on to say it can be teleported, but in order for the creature to be teleported by itself is for it to take a move action, which, according to the rules, it cannot do.
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Shad0w

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2013, 12:19:53 PM »
I know and with all the testing and planning going on the rules team has not had time to do things like this. It comes down to intent of card vs rules.
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sIKE

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2013, 12:48:52 PM »
The Dude is only highlighting the Move Part of equation, there is the teleport part of the equation. What I think needs to happen is to establish order of precedence in situations like these. No rule changes are needed, just a ruling on which trait overrides the other.

Poison conditions that affect movement(Cripple) should apply here. How I see this working:

Even with the additional mana mojo from the mage, the BGs innate ability would be "hampered" by the poison condition and therefore unable to Teleport. 
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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2013, 12:58:01 PM »
That's because the move part of the rules is what makes him teleport. It doesn't say he teleports instead of moves. It states that he teleports as a move action.
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sIKE

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2013, 01:06:07 PM »
But at that point the "move" is no longer done with the legs, it is done with magic. He disappears from one zone and magically appears in another. No chance for a vine to grab him or opposing creature to jump in the way and slow down progress. Just poof! Where in the heck did he go? Poof! Crap how in the hay did he get way over there?

As was said previously Teleporting creatures are not hindered.

Doesn't seem that hard to grasp to me....but I am a flavor guy vs. a pedantic rule reading type....no malalignment of anyone's character is intended here.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 01:15:38 PM by sIKE »
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Tacullu64

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2013, 01:07:23 PM »
Just my two cents worth.

I'm not sure why hindering would need to be rewritten.

TELEPORTING
Teleporting is an effect that moves a creature directly from one zone to another. The teleported creature does not move through any zones in between, and bypasses all walls, creatures, and objects along its route.

Bypassing creatures is fairly strong wording. How can one creature hinder another when it is bypassed?

Movement by teleporting ignores the Hindering restriction. If a creature teleports before it takes any move actions, it can become un-hindered if it teleports into a zone without any enemy objects that can hinder it.

Once again, How can one creature hinder another when it is bypassed?

I would think that since there is conflict between the rules governing teleport and the rules governing hindering it could be cleared up by officially stating which set of rules takes precedence.

Ultimately, however it is handled, the important thing is that it is clear how we should be playing the Blue Gremlin. Complexity of the different arguments aside its a simple yes or no question. Is the BG hindered by opposing creatures when he uses his special ability. Yes or no? This has been a friendly rules discussion to date. I don't get the sense that people are emotionally vested in one side or the other, only that they want to know how to use the BG correctly so they can continue playing MW without worrying of they are playing wrong.

Edit: looks like the dude and sike snuck in a few posts while I was formulating my thoughts. Should have hit yes to the "Do you want to read?" query.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 01:12:34 PM by Tacullu64 »

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2013, 03:10:32 PM »
But it is still a move action, be it done with legs or magic. I understand you are coming from a theme standpoint, but the rules have to make sense. If the card had said "Blue Gremlin teleports up to two zones instead of moving", then I would agree with you. But, as it stands, to teleport, the Blue Gremlin must effectively use a move action, which he cannot do if he is restrained, and he can only use 1 move action unless he was elusive out of a hindering zone.
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sIKE

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Re: Blue Gremlin and Teleport
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2013, 03:28:24 PM »
I know what you are saying, we have a classic The Unopposable Force vs. The Immovable Object situation :)

I (trying to reword my thoughts here) think the intent of the "each move action he takes this round is a Teleport to the next zone" is to limit how far the BG can move in a given round with each move action. Since he has fast each "move action" (once the mana was paid) would be via teleportation and the teleport rules would then apply to the movement vis-ŕ-vis hindering. He could pop though two zone and make a quick attack in the second zone.

The teleport trait would mean that the elusive trait is not needed since teleporting creatures are not hindered.

Edit: Fleshed out my thoughts....
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 03:44:03 PM by sIKE »
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