February 25, 2020, 03:31:55 AM

Author Topic: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting  (Read 2790 times)

Hedge

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Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« on: October 16, 2012, 09:08:22 PM »
Do the previously mentioned spells target the Mage?


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Rumsey

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 09:46:26 PM »
No. They target the "Revealed Enchantment" and the "Hidden Enchantment" cards only. The cards do have a controller but there is nothing that currently tracks back to the controller.

Hedge

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 10:53:09 PM »
not that I discount your answer, but that would mean only jinx could counter either of them. Because reverse magic and nullify both require targeting the mage.  Which seems counter to the way the game appears to be designed.



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Nihilistiskism

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 11:03:10 PM »
Yeah, I'm curious, too. Were the dispell cards designed to only be stopped by jinx, and not affected by Reverse Magic and Nullify?

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Koz

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 08:37:13 AM »
Technically Seeking Dispel cannot be countered by Jinx since Seeking Dispel prevents the enchantment from being revealed as soon as it is cast.  Not that that's a big deal since it amounts to the same effect (except the player of Jinx saves one mana since they don't have to pay the reveal), but I'm just pointing it out.

Shad0w

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 09:37:51 AM »
Quote from: "Koz" post=2251
Technically Seeking Dispel cannot be countered by Jinx since Seeking Dispel prevents the enchantment from being revealed as soon as it is cast.  Not that that's a big deal since it amounts to the same effect (except the player of Jinx saves one mana since they don't have to pay the reveal), but I'm just pointing it out.


Correct. I did a full breakdown a while back in another thread. It is listed below.

Enchantments
are always played facedown, and remain hidden from your opponent until you choose to reveal them. You can decide that you would like to reveal the enchantment so that it has an effect on the game right away. You declare that you are is revealing it, flip it face up, and pays the reveal cost

When Can You Reveal?
You can reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event in the game:

• At the end of any Phase of the game round.

• Immediately after a creature is activated, before it chooses its actions for the turn

• Immediately after a creature completes its move action, but before it takes a quick action.

• At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell.

• You can reveal an enchantment immediately after it is cast, right after the Resolve Spell Step. When an enchantment is “resolved” it is placed face down as a hidden enchantment. Then, immediately after it has resolved, you may choose to reveal it at the end of that Step.

• You cannot interrupt an event to reveal an enchantment.

I also did a full breakdown for Seeking Dispel and Jinx interact in this thread.

Below I am listing the most important section of that thread.

Quote from: "Shad0w" post=1483
Rather than this turning into a flame war lets look at what Bryan said.
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=1412
Thanks for the compliment!

This is a really good question!

Okay, here is how this is resolved:

Casting a spell has 3 steps:
1) Cast Spell
2) Counter Spell
3) Resolve Spell

When Seeking Dispel is cast, as part of Step 1 it prevents the target enchantment from revealing.
When Step 2 is reached, the Jinx has already been locked down and cannot be revealed.  
So, the Jinx is destroyed without being revealed.

The wording on these 2 spells conflict each other, because Jinx says "must".  In cases like this where 2 equal events happen which conflict, we first default to the time sequence for resolution.  In which case we default to the first event that occurred - the Seeking Dispel preventing the revealing.  

In Mage Wars, everything happens in order, in sequence, and whenever possible we resolve conflicts in sequence, with later events not being able to change prior events.  

In rare cases, when using time sequence does not work, we default to the Initiative order, and let the player with initiative decide (that makes it easy and fullproof!   :) )

Hope this helps!

Shad0w Wrote:
So lets brake it down.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1: Cast Spell
Announce that you are casting a spell and what the target will be.

You may only choose a target that matches the target requirements listed in the casting line.

Some spells will target a zone on the game board. Other spells will target
a single object.

Pay the cost(s) of the spell

Step 2: Counter Spell
Once the spell has been cast, your opponent has a chance to “counter” it. Normally, there is nothing your opponent can do, and the spell simply takes effect.

However, some spells and abilities, such as the Nullify enchantment, may allow him to counter your spell.

When a spell is countered it is discarded without effect, and you lose the mana spent and any action used to cast the spell (unless the spell or ability which counters says otherwise).

Step 3: Resolve Spell
At this point, the spell takes effect.

The spell type (e.g., conjuration) and the text on the spell card determine the effects of the spell. If you have cast an attack spell, you must now resolve the attack.

When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell is no longer valid (has moved or changed), then the spell is countered.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The trick is Seeking Dispel has text that applies on cast other text that applies on resolution. Jinx applies the "Must" reveal after the spell is cast. So Seeking Dispels "can not be revealed" text is already in effect.

I hope this helps


So If you reveal any enchant before you pass to your opponent they could not respond with Seeking Dispel BUT once Seeking Dispel has been cast you can not reveal the targeted enchantment regardless of what the enchantment is. You can however reveal a different enchantment.

Reverse Magic and Nullify interact differently than Seeking Dispel so that would be in another post.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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Hedge

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 10:51:45 AM »
shadow, you really like that snippet, but you didn't  address let alone answer the bigger question. Koz I am well aware of the fact that jinx can't cancel a SD when it is the target of SD, but it can certainly cancel SD if it is not the targeted enchantment.



Hedge

Arcanus

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 11:07:44 AM »
Hi guys, thought I'd make a quick comment.  

Hedge, you are correct sir, a Jinx could be revealed to block a Seeking Dispel (as long as it is not the target).

Interestingly, we thought about letting Nullify be placed on an enchantment to protect it, but playtesters rejected the idea, concerned that it might be too powerful, and players need to be able to get rid of enchantments.  However, we will be implementing ways to protect enchantments in the future.

Rumsey

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 11:09:03 AM »
Quote from: "Hedge" post=2241
not that I discount your answer, but that would mean only jinx could counter either of them. Because reverse magic and nullify both require targeting the mage.  Which seems counter to the way the game appears to be designed.



Hedge


That is correct.  Currently there are no cards that protect enchantments.  Even Dissolve and Explode target the Mage before selecting the Equipment to be affected.  Always have to look at the targeting on the card first.

Shad0w

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Re: Dispel, seeking dispel Targeting
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 11:45:25 AM »
Quote from: "Hedge" post=2259
shadow, you really like that snippet, but you didn't  address let alone answer the bigger question. Koz I am well aware of the fact that jinx can't cancel a SD when it is the target of SD, but it can certainly cancel SD if it is not the targeted enchantment.

Hedge


It was a bit of work to make it and it does cover his question at the very bottom.

So If you reveal any enchant before you pass to your opponent they could not respond with Seeking Dispel BUT once Seeking Dispel has been cast you can not reveal the targeted enchantment regardless of what the enchantment is. You can however reveal a different enchantment.

See I did not ignore the question I just it easier to use what I made while I am at work. Thanks for the shorter version hedge :cheer:

Quote from: "Rumsey" post=2265
Quote from: "Hedge" post=2241
not that I discount your answer, but that would mean only jinx could counter either of them. Because reverse magic and nullify both require targeting the mage.  Which seems counter to the way the game appears to be designed.



Hedge


That is correct. Currently there are no cards that protect enchantments.  Even Dissolve and Explode target the Mage before selecting the Equipment to be affected.  Always have to look at the targeting on the card first.


Also correct and good call Rusmey
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage