July 23, 2018, 02:29:12 AM

Author Topic: Essence Drain VS Force Hold  (Read 2627 times)

Drealin

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Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« on: October 19, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »
Why does Essence Drain cost more than Force Hold?
Essence Drain not only costs 2 more mana, but it can't target the opponent's mage and only has an Upkeep +2, while Force Hold can target opponen'ts mage and has Upkeep +3, plus the target is Restrained and gains the Unmovable trait.

Shad0w

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 01:23:37 AM »
Quote from: "Drealin" post=2356
Why does Essence Drain cost more than Force Hold?
Essence Drain not only costs 2 more mana, but it can't target the opponent's mage and only has an Upkeep +2, while Force Hold can target opponen'ts mage and has Upkeep +3, plus the target is Restrained and gains the Unmovable trait.


Essence Drain

This creature gains the Upkeep +2 trait.

Force Hold  
Upkeep +3
This creature is Restrained, and gains the Unmovable trait. This does not affect creatures with the Uncontainable trait.

Here is the difference on Essence Drain (This creature gains the Upkeep +2 trait) says that if the controller of the creature must pay 2 mana each turn or the creature dies.

On Force Hold the upkeep +3 (the person who cast force hold must pay 3 each round or discard Force Hold from play).

IF Essence Drian was allowed to target a mage and that mage did not pay the upkeep they would die.

I hope this helps.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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Drealin

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 10:33:20 AM »
Ok, thanks, I was thinking that the creature gained Upkeep +3 because it was attached to them.  But this means that anything on the enchantment references the caster, unless it specifies "This creature gains..."
That makes a lot more sense now.

Shad0w

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 01:53:05 PM »
Quote from: "Drealin" post=2378
Ok, thanks, I was thinking that the creature gained Upkeep +3 because it was attached to them.  But this means that anything on the enchantment references the caster, unless it specifies "This creature gains..."
That makes a lot more sense now.


That is what i figured so It is not a problem.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

Nihilistiskism

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 03:54:16 PM »
To further clarify:

If you go to the back of the rulebook, and check the index for "Upkeep" you'll see this:

Upkeep +X
This objectís controller pays X mana during each Upkeep Phase or this
object is destroyed.

The key word in this description is "Object."

Looking up the word "Object" you'll see this:

Object
Enchantments, equipment, creatures, and conjurations are spells which
become objects in the game, remaining in play after they are cast. The
Mage is also considered an object. Incantation and attack spells do not
become objects.


So, "Objects" can have an upkeep cost. Your enchantment is an Object. The creature to which it is attached is also an Object, but unless your enchantment, by its text, confers an upkeep cost to the creature, it is the enchantment that has the upkeep cost.

So, yeah, everything that's already been said, but with more layout for clarity's sake....and perhaps I'm the only one who wanted that, but there it is, and I'm sleepy, so I'm going to take a nap, now.

...

/end ramble

-nihil
Take a shower, don't talk like a junior high dropout, and stop being such a fatty.

wash17

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 01:51:35 PM »
"IF Essence Drian was allowed to target a mage and that mage did not pay the upkeep they would die."

This actually ties in to a question I have. Can  Force Hold target an enemy mage? I don't actually see anything keeping it from doing just that. This came up in a game where I suckered a beast master into following me to the corner, then Force Holding him and sicking 2 hydras on him. I want to make sure I wasn't cheating when I did so.

It also seems a little op to be able to hit an enemy mage with something like that.

wash17

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Re: Essence Drain VS Force Hold
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 02:01:25 PM »
oh, shoot, never mind, found my mistake upon a few re-reads. I should have been paying the upkeep instead of him. Good to know, and I owe my opponent an apology.