March 24, 2019, 04:26:08 AM

Author Topic: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?  (Read 10025 times)

silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2014, 12:13:26 AM »
I actually just got my Warlock/Wizard spell books in today. They look totally sweet and give me hope that the Warlock will one day have a dragon so he can set elves on fire.
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Lukard

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2014, 10:28:19 AM »
Hi everybody,

Thank you very much for your input, I am very happy to see players participating in such discussions.

Reading your posts I can see two main points that I would like to explore: Spellbinder vs Spelldeck; Should Spellbinders be Included in the Expansions?

Spellbinder vs Spelldeck: This is quite a simple topic IMO. Some players prefer spellbinders, other players prefer Spelldecks. It is a personal choice that does not impact gameplay and players a free to choose whatever they feel more comfortable with.

Should Spellbinders be Included in the Expansions? This is a hot topic that can foment a long discussion. IMO, it is a business decision driven by profit. A comprehensive business analysis could get very complex and we do not have enough data to make such analysis. However, we can see interesting results if we list and explore a few key-points:

=== Reasons to exclude spellbinder in the expansions ===
E1:  Players may end up with more spellbinders than necessary: As Lord0fWinter pointed out, some players (including myself) have more spellbinders than mages that can be made at once. Pilling empty spellbinders also may generate a negative psychological effect.

E2: Excluding spellbinders may reduce cost, hence attract more players: As lettucemode pointed out, there is no way for us to know it for sure. However, there is one thing I want to say, most of my friends prefer A Game Of Thrones LCG than Mage Wars because GoT's expansions/packs are cheaper. Players ponder if they should start a new game based on the long term cost. If excluding spellbinders can reduce costs, then; excluding spellbinders is an option that should be carefully considered.

E3: Players who want more spellbinders can purchase it separately: Lord0fWinder, Imaginator, and ACG have good points about it. It is clear that purchasing it separately would be more expansive; but, it would be more beneficial for the other players. In other words, we need to know the ratio of players who fall into E1 to evaluate this key-point.

=== Reasons to include spellbinder in the expansions ===
I1: Players do not want to purchase spellbinders separately due to costs: This is related to E3. Again, we need to know the ratio of players who fall into E1 to evaluate this key point.

I2: It justifies the expansion cost: This may be one of the most important reasons to include spellbinders. We all know that costumers have the impression their money is well spent if they get a big box with nice components. This key-point is related to E1 and E2.


It would be very good if we could know the ratio of players who fall into E1. How about if we open a new topic an ask players their opinion about it?

Thanks,
Lukard

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Lukard

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2014, 10:31:20 AM »
The minor expansions like CoK and FiF do not come with spellbooks,and the major ones like DvN and FvW do...so in reality the glass is half full for both sides of this conversation....

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sIKE

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2014, 10:37:00 AM »
Forged in Fire, the upcoming release.
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ACG

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2014, 11:19:38 AM »
It would be very good if we could know the ratio of players who fall into E1. How about if we open a new topic an ask players their opinion about it?

An excellent suggestion. Can we do polls on this site?

Also, if we do this we should also set up a poll on BGG, so that we can find out what the average player thinks (since I assume that many players do not visit this site). We need to word the question in such a way that it does not bias the responses. What about:

"Which distribution model would you prefer for mage wars expansions?

1. The current model, with spellbook binders packaged with each major expansion set.

2. Sell spellbook binders separately from expansions and reduce the price and/or increase the number of cards in each expansion.

3. No preference."


Lord0fWinter

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2014, 11:47:54 AM »
It would be very good if we could know the ratio of players who fall into E1. How about if we open a new topic an ask players their opinion about it?

An excellent suggestion. Can we do polls on this site?

Also, if we do this we should also set up a poll on BGG, so that we can find out what the average player thinks (since I assume that many players do not visit this site). We need to word the question in such a way that it does not bias the responses. What about:

"Which distribution model would you prefer for mage wars expansions?

1. The current model, with spellbook binders packaged with each major expansion set.

2. Sell spellbook binders separately from expansions and reduce the price and/or increase the number of cards in each expansion.

3. No preference."


Done. On BGG at least. Hopefully enough people answer it to get a decent idea of what the general population thinks.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2014, 11:49:56 AM »

Thematically I HATE digging though a pile of cards while trying to plan a strategy and don't even start me on card counts. Bile just rose up in the back of my throat.

It is not called a spell deck, but a Spellbook, Thematically the game revolves around this. A deck is shuffled and random things happen, bile just rose up in the back of my throat again. A spellbook is order and planning.

My problem is not with the existence of spellbooks in general, just the idea of using them during a match. Just because it's in a deck form doesn't mean it has to function like a traditional deck. You don't have to shuffle it or even call it a deck. Furthermore, if you keep your build organized by type, and maybe loosely organized by level, I really don't see why  it should be be that hard to find the spells you need during the planning phase.

Using spellbook binders during a match is valuable to the theme, but only in apprentice mode.

There is no thematic justification for why fully trained mages should stop to read a book while fighting for their lives, unless the book itself is an equipment spell that has it's own abilities, but it has to be something that makes it worth stopping to read. If a mage has other objects capable of holding off enemy attacks while they're reading that's fine. The wizard could do that. The Necromancer could do that. The Druid could do that. So could the priestess. The Beastmaster could do that but usually won't want to.

However, a competent priest of Malakai won't, and neither the forcemaster nor the warlock would be caught dead reading in the middle of a fight.

When the book automatically casts its own spells even better, since that way the mage doesn't have to READ them in the middle if a fight.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 11:52:04 AM by Imaginator »
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2014, 11:57:00 AM »
To be fair, the small AGOT expansions have 60 cards (20 cards 3x each) and are $15, which CoK has 106 cards plus 2 mages and some new markers for $30.

The larger expansions for AGOT have usually around 150-160 cards for around $30, while the large expansions for Mage Wars have 216 cards plus new mages and markers PLUS 2 spellbooks for $40.

Comparing the two, you actually get more for your money with Mage Wars, IMO.

Note- These prices are all based on USA pricing, not international.
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ACG

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2014, 11:58:07 AM »
Done. On BGG at least. Hopefully enough people answer it to get a decent idea of what the general population thinks.

Poll found here for the convenience of all:


sIKE

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2014, 12:07:06 PM »

Thematically I HATE digging though a pile of cards while trying to plan a strategy and don't even start me on card counts. Bile just rose up in the back of my throat.

It is not called a spell deck, but a Spellbook, Thematically the game revolves around this. A deck is shuffled and random things happen, bile just rose up in the back of my throat again. A spellbook is order and planning.

My problem is not with the existence of spellbooks in general, just the idea of using them during a match. Just because it's in a deck form doesn't mean it has to function like a traditional deck. You don't have to shuffle it or even call it a deck. Furthermore, if you keep your build organized by type, and maybe loosely organized by level, I really don't see why  it should be be that hard to find the spells you need during the planning phase.

Using spellbook binders during a match is valuable to the theme, but only in apprentice mode.

There is no thematic justification for why fully trained mages should stop to read a book while fighting for their lives, unless the book itself is an equipment spell that has it's own abilities, but it has to be something that makes it worth stopping to read. If a mage has other objects capable of holding off enemy attacks while they're reading that's fine. The wizard could do that. The Necromancer could do that. The Druid could do that. So could the priestess. The Beastmaster could do that but usually won't want to.

However, a competent priest of Malakai won't, and neither the forcemaster nor the warlock would be caught dead reading in the middle of a fight.

When the book automatically casts its own spells even better, since that way the mage doesn't have to READ them in the middle if a fight.
Same can be said about either of these mages flipping through a pile of cards, Priest in his NC: Crap! I know I have a Wall of Holy Light (a man can dream right) here some where, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, ah! no! dang it! flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, flick ....<five minutes pass>... ahh there it is! Mean while, page 4 is where me conjurations start, loaded in alpha order, I find my Wall to Eternal Damnation (a man can dream right?) in 3.2 to seconds, I roll my eyes for the next 5 + minutes. :)

Arguing theme of how in IRL person picks a card that represents a spell to cast in the arena and then applying that same mechanism to the mage in the arena is not in any way tied to each other thematically.

Just like Wrestlers who while off screen choreograph their moves, steps, counts, and reactions out of the ring, once in the ring all of that falls away and you see the magic. For MW to book building process done IRL is a mechanic for us, not the mage. When he enters the arena all you see is the magic. (IMHO)
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Lukard

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2014, 12:45:40 PM »
To be fair, the small AGOT expansions have 60 cards (20 cards 3x each) and are $15, which CoK has 106 cards plus 2 mages and some new markers for $30.

The larger expansions for AGOT have usually around 150-160 cards for around $30, while the large expansions for Mage Wars have 216 cards plus new mages and markers PLUS 2 spellbooks for $40.

Comparing the two, you actually get more for your money with Mage Wars, IMO.

Note- These prices are all based on USA pricing, not international.

Thank you very much for bringing this up. I agree with you. Also, AGOT has more packs and expansions than MW; therefore, currently it is more expensive in the long run.

Nevertheless, I have presented similar comparison to some friends and they still prefer AGOT. AGOT has more packs costing $12-$16 and I notice that it has somehow influenced their preference.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2014, 12:55:09 PM »
Thank you very much for bringing this up. I agree with you. Also, AGOT has more packs and expansions than MW; therefore, currently it is more expensive in the long run.

Nevertheless, I have presented similar comparison to some friends and they still prefer AGOT. AGOT has more packs costing $12-$16 and I notice that it has somehow influenced their preference.

I know what you mean. Since the expansions are lower cost, it is natural to assume they are a better deal, and therefore make them more likely to be bought. However this isn't the case. Same can be said with Netrunner and other LCGs that release expansions every month or every other month. I much prefer AW's release schedule.

For the cost (considering what you get), MW and its expansions are one of, if not the best, deals out there. Especially considering it is such a great game with infinite replayability.

I got tired of having to buy expansions for AGOT every month which is why I stopped playing. It was just too much money to buy everything out there. It's too bad not everybody sees it this way.
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Lukard

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2014, 01:09:05 PM »
Hi sPIKE & Imaginator

My honest opinion is that it's just a personal preference. I (and another friend) honest noticed a gain in speed when using the spelldeck (or spell-repertoire for a different name  ;D ); but the spellbinder is awesome, cool, and pretty. I still using the spellbinder when I have spare time to set it up.

However, I noticed that some players take their time to scan their spellbinder back and forth, because it helps them to thinking about their options. If they want to do the same thing with a spelldeck; then, it will take longer; therefore, it may influence their preference between spellbinder vs spelldeck. I am different, I do it in my head and seek the desired cards when I know what I want.

Moreover, the spellbinder is just an accessory. As in many other products it can be sold with the main product or separately.
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sIKE

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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2014, 01:20:30 PM »
Hi sPIKE & Imaginator

My honest opinion is that it's just a personal preference. I (and another friend) honest noticed a gain in speed when using the spelldeck (or spell-repertoire for a different name  ;D ); but the spellbinder is awesome, cool, and pretty. I still using the spellbinder when I have spare time to set it up.

However, I noticed that some players take their time to scan their spellbinder back and forth, because it helps them to thinking about their options. If they want to do the same thing with a spelldeck; then, it will take longer; therefore, it may influence their preference between spellbinder vs spelldeck. I am different, I do it in my head and seek the desired cards when I know what I want.

Moreover, the spellbinder is just an accessory. As in many other products it can be sold with the main product or separately.
I am not arguing that one is faster than the other to setup. Obviously taking a card out and putting it into a pile is much faster than placing it into a slot in a spellbook, especially if you do it in order. OTOH the preparation of a spellbook, leads to faster game play, no need to search for a card. Then at the end, clean up is much faster with a deck, it is a pile after all, no need to organize it. But all of these points were not the point of the OP. I (do/do not) like playing with the spellbook.....
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Re: Am I the only one who does not like playing with the Spellbook?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2014, 12:27:12 PM »
I like the spellbooks.  They look good, they're thematic and set the game apart from LCG games, and they feel like a bonus when you open the box (even though rationally speaking they probably aren't).  And I like using them too.