May 26, 2019, 06:26:26 PM

Author Topic: Triple strike & Reverse attack  (Read 5136 times)

kamishev

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Triple strike & Reverse attack
« on: November 19, 2012, 10:51:34 AM »
The hydra is attacking my mage, i turn reverse attack and reverse the hall attack(the three strikes) or just the first one. I think is the first option because the additional strikes are part of one whole attack, but want to confirm.

Shad0w

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 11:16:38 AM »
Quote from: "kamishev" post=4622
The hydra is attacking my mage, i turn reverse attack and reverse the hall attack(the three strikes) or just the first one. I think is the first option because the additional strikes are part of one whole attack, but want to confirm.


Reverse Attack:
When an attacker (which we will call Object A) attacks the creature enchanted with Reverse Attack (which we will call Creature , Reverse Attack must be revealed during the Avoid Attack Step. If the Reverse Attack effect occurs, the entire remainder of Object A's attack sequence is canceled, and instead Creature B must immediately make an identical attack action targeting Object A. (This is a "free action"; it does not require Creature B to spend its action marker.) All traits on the original attack, as well as traits on Object A that affect the attack (such as Melee +X), are carried over to the reversed attack. (These traits apply instead of any traits on Creature B that would normally affect attacks made by Creature B.) This reversed attack action is then resolved as normal. If Object A's original attack action consisted of multiple attack sequences (i.e., attacks against different targets), Object A picks up the series of attack sequences where it left off.


Sorry missed this with all the spam issues.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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kamishev

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 04:46:11 PM »
Thanks, so the hydra has to continue it`s attack from the 2nd one.

Hedge

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 07:05:01 PM »
no the reverse attack is for all three. An attack that has sweeping will only reverse the single attack targeting the creature with reverse attack attached.



while Shadow's post is quite extensive and completely correct. I  wish he would sum it up at the end with a one or more yes/no statements.

Arcanus

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 01:44:52 PM »
Hello all,

We have recently updated our attack rules to be sure that attack actions and sequences are clear, specifically for handling Reverse Attack.  

The short answer is that Reverse Attack only bounces back the very first individual attack or strike.  It will not affect additional strikes or attacks.  

This is also realistic;  The Reverse Attack is a force bubble that bounces the first attack back.  After that attack is bounced, it is destroyed.  SO, successive attacks or strikes, after the first one, are not bounced back.  As much as possible, we try to make Mage Wars realistic and intuitive, unless it overly adds complication.

Creatures with doublestrike or triplestrike are very effective against Defenses, because only the first attack or strike is affected.  Block and Reverse Attack are also a Defense and work the same way, which keeps them consistent.

Now, here is the long explanation, in case anyone is interested!   :)

An attack action is a creature action (quick or full) used to make an attack. Sometimes the attack action will be an individual attack, or it might comprise multiple separate attacks (also referred to as "strikes").  Each individual attack in that action is called an attack sequence.  

For example, double strike, triplestrike, and sweeping are one attack action (always a full action), but have multiple attack sequences.  Some attacks do not follow all of the steps of the attack sequence.  For example, the second attack sequence of a Doublestrike attack action, skips the Declare Attack Step and only has 3 steps.

Defenses, like Block and Reverse Attack, only affect one attack sequence.

When an attacker (which we will call Creature A) attacks the creature enchanted with Reverse Attack (which we will call Creature B), Reverse Attack must be revealed during the Avoid Attack Step. If the Reverse Attack effect occurs, the remainder of Creature A's attack sequence is canceled, and instead Creature B must immediately make an identical attack sequence targeting Object A. This reversed attack sequence is then resolved as normal.

If Object A's original attack action consisted of multiple attack sequences (doublestrike triplestrike, sweeping, etc.), Object A picks up the series of attack sequences where it left off after reversing the first sequence.

I hope that helps clarify!   :)

Shad0w

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 03:18:51 PM »
Always good to hear from you Bryan. I was working off the current rules. I did not want to give the updated rules till i got your ok.


Once all the rules have been updated I believe the plan is to post the updated rulebook for download.  ;)
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theduke850

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 05:23:59 PM »
if you are able to comment, are the updated rules extensive or just a few minor tweaks?

Arcanus

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 09:34:02 PM »
Were not really changing any rules, just clarifying some things to make it clearer.  I just counted and there are about 9 rules topics we are clarifying, one of which was listed in this post concerning attack actions/sequences.

BTW - great work Shadow - you are appreciated!

Shad0w

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 06:15:56 AM »
Another thing we are looking at is cleaning up wordings on some rules. Removing things like redundant text.
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Gewar

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 09:57:21 AM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=4674
Another thing we are looking at is cleaning up wordings on some rules. Removing things like redundant text.


If I may suggest one thing, there would be nice to have default traits presented in vissible way (in codex and/or in rulebook), ie:
Conjurations
(Nonliving, Psychic Immunity, Unmovable)

[description]
as opposed to have those information in text.

Sorry for the offtopic :)
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Vadi88

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 09:58:56 AM »
What about Chain Lightning?
A.) It reverse only that attack sequence and
              1.) the original attacker continues
               2.) after the bounce it ends
    Does matter the distance from the Reverse Attack-ing creature to the caster or not?  

B.) The defender takes control for the remaining attacks because it's like a chain, not individual attacks.

Shad0w

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 11:31:04 AM »
Quote from: "Vadi88" post=5255
What about Chain Lightning?
A.) It reverse only that attack sequence and
              1.) the original attacker continues
               2.) after the bounce it ends
    Does matter the distance from the Reverse Attack-ing creature to the caster or not?  

B.) The defender takes control for the remaining attacks because it's like a chain, not individual attacks.


Byran Did a long write on how Reverse Attack works. You can find it in the spoiler. [spoiler]
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=4662
Hello all,

We have recently updated our attack rules to be sure that attack actions and sequences are clear, specifically for handling Reverse Attack.  

The short answer is that Reverse Attack only bounces back the very first individual attack or strike.  It will not affect additional strikes or attacks.  

This is also realistic;  The Reverse Attack is a force bubble that bounces the first attack back.  After that attack is bounced, it is destroyed.  SO, successive attacks or strikes, after the first one, are not bounced back.  As much as possible, we try to make Mage Wars realistic and intuitive, unless it overly adds complication.

Creatures with doublestrike or triplestrike are very effective against Defenses, because only the first attack or strike is affected.  Block and Reverse Attack are also a Defense and work the same way, which keeps them consistent.

Now, here is the long explanation, in case anyone is interested!   :)

An attack action is a creature action (quick or full) used to make an attack. Sometimes the attack action will be an individual attack, or it might comprise multiple separate attacks (also referred to as "strikes").  Each individual attack in that action is called an attack sequence.  

For example, double strike, triplestrike, and sweeping are one attack action (always a full action), but have multiple attack sequences.  Some attacks do not follow all of the steps of the attack sequence.  For example, the second attack sequence of a Doublestrike attack action, skips the Declare Attack Step and only has 3 steps.

Defenses, like Block and Reverse Attack, only affect one attack sequence.

When an attacker (which we will call Creature A) attacks the creature enchanted with Reverse Attack (which we will call Creature B), Reverse Attack must be revealed during the Avoid Attack Step. If the Reverse Attack effect occurs, the remainder of Creature A's attack sequence is canceled, and instead Creature B must immediately make an identical attack sequence targeting Object A. This reversed attack sequence is then resolved as normal.

If Object A's original attack action consisted of multiple attack sequences (doublestrike triplestrike, sweeping, etc.), Object A picks up the series of attack sequences where it left off after reversing the first sequence.

I hope that helps clarify!   :)
[/spoiler]

It is the same post as listed above

A.) It reverse only that attack sequence and
              1.) the original attacker continues (If it is the first attack only)
               2.) after the bounce it ends (depends on the attack - chain lightning would keep going if it dealt damage)
    Does matter the distance from the Reverse Attack-ing creature to the caster or not?  (Only if the target moved out of range before the attack resolved.)

B.) The defender takes control for the remaining attacks because it's like a chain, not individual attacks.
( The short answer is that Reverse Attack only bounces back the very first individual attack or strike.  It will not affect additional strikes or attacks.)
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

Vadi88

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 09:00:15 AM »
The explanations are good, and I don't want to be uncomprehending, just this Chain Lightning is so different to me than other attacks it must clear for me. I imagine it like a "real" chain, with 0 or 1 long links.

I think it doesn't matter that Reverse Attack is on the 1st, 2nd etc. target, only the distance matter.

A.) Target is in the same zone or 1 zone away. It redirect back the sequence and the attack continues with the next sequence from the target or the caster?

B.) Target is 2 zones away minimum. The reveresed attack sequence has no target in the range, only countered, and the chain is ended here. Right?

Arcanus

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 09:19:42 AM »
Hi Vadi88,

No problem.

a) it continues from whatever the last target was.  SO if it is bounced back to the caster, then it continues again from the caster.

b) yes.

Vadi88

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Re: Triple strike & Reverse attack
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 10:17:15 AM »
Thank you very much for helping :)