August 22, 2019, 06:32:52 AM

Author Topic: Fire Wizard  (Read 8816 times)

sdougla2

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Fire Wizard
« on: March 01, 2013, 07:11:12 PM »
I just started putting together a fire Wizard build that focuses on direct attacks. Here's the list I've come up with so far, although my physical version is slightly different since I don't have enough Fireblasts yet.

Creatures (3)

Huginn

Equipment (19)

Dragonscale Hauberk
Elemental Cloak
Leather Gloves
Leather Boots
Suppression Cloak
Mage Wand x2
Elemental Wand x2
Regrowth Belt
Mage Staff
Moonglow Amulet
Fireshaper Ring

Conjurations (23)

Battleforge
Mana Crystal x4
Wall of Fire x3
Mordok’s Obelisk
Suppression Orb
Tanglevine x2

Enchantments (18)

Bear Strength
Hawkeye
Mongoose Agility
Cheetah Speed
Nullify x3
Harmonize
Force Hold
Poison Blood

Incantations (34)

Teleport x3
Force Push x5
Dispel x3
Seeking Dispel x2
Purge Magic
Dissolve x2
Explode x3

Attacks (23)

Fireblast x6
Fireball x4
Hurl Boulder
Ring of Fire
Firestorm

I'm not sure that the melee plan is a good idea for this type of build, but it offers some flexibility, so I haven't removed it yet. Similarly, I'm not sure of the best way to take advantage of Huginn for this type of list. I don't have the mana generation to take advantage of his spellcasting as well as Battleforge and all of my mage's actions on the same turn, but dropping him after I've played most of my equipment could continue my action advantage. If I suspect my opponent will make an equipment or 1-2 big play he might be a worthwhile alternative to Battleforge. Any thoughts on Huginn in this type of build?

My planned opening is Battleforge -> Harmonize -> Moonglow Amulet -> Mana Crystal -> Mana Crystal. At that point I have enough mana generation (15 including my forge) to build up while attacking and activating my shield regularly. I'd like to come up with an opening where I use Huginn instead of Battleforge, but I'm not sure if the control advantage would be worth the lack of buildup. Battleforge should be the better opening against swarms, since my mana denial will limit his usefulness somewhat, and his control advantage is most effective against powerful individual creatures anyway.

I can use Force Push against people that try to daze/stun lock me. Tossing someone through a Wall of Fire doesn't count as an attack, and seems like a reasonable alternative.

Against swarms I can use mana denial and zone attacks. Against melee and 1-2 big creatures I can kite, and my Voltaric Shield will help in those kinds of damage races. Mana Denial shouldn't be a big deal, since I don't really use creatures and I can kite Mana Leeches.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I appreciate any feedback.
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Aylin

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 07:30:05 PM »
What about an Arcane Ring?

Koy

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 07:59:13 PM »
Let's take a look at your planned opening against a few openings I use with various mages:

If you follow through your plan, you are into turn 3 with your quick cast down.  You are channeling 14 mana, and holding 14 in your pool.  Your Battle Forge has 2 mana on it.  You have one card prepared in hand.  You have setup a strong economy, betting on living into late game where it will start paying dividends.

Opening Warlock:

T1 - channel to 19, move, move
T2 - channel to 28, cast Lord of Fire, cast Cheetah Speed on LoF
T3 - channel to 11, cast Lash of Hellfire, reveal Speed

So you have spent 30 mana setting up an economy which will show its first positive return late in the game where the warlock now has a fast Big Bad and an armed Warlock ready to start the beatdown.  If I'm playing the warlock, I like what I'm seeing.

Opening Priestess:

T1 - channel to 20, cast royal archer
T2 - channel to 18, cast royal archer
T3 - channel to 16, cast Brogan

Again, the priestess is now projecting some serious board control with the archers and a Brogan is out ready for some buffs, heals, and general asswhoopery versus a heavy economy setup.  I like my odds with this.

I am a very strong believer that you must get some creatures out early and adapt from there.  I would say that turn 2 will show you just how agressive your opponent is, and you can start adjusting from there.  But to spend your first two full turns, let alone part of the third, building an economy... you are so far behind, your demise is nigh.

As always, just some opinions from me.

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2013, 08:39:27 PM »
I'm not sure about Arcane Ring in this build because I'm trying to build up my mana generation as fast as possible. I don't improve my channeling as quickly if I take an action to cast the ring, and I want to set myself up to be flexible in later turns.

The Harmonize is on the Battleforge, and I cast the Moonglow Amulet from the Battleforge, so I start round 3 with 13 channeling, 2 mana on my Battleforge, and 17 mana, if I did my math right.

Against a Lord of Fire and Warlock beatdown strategy I would then start using my shield every turn, play Dragonscale Hauberk and Elemental Cloak from my forge, and use Teleport, Cheetah Speed, Mongoose Agility, and Force Hold (should be replaced with Enfeeble, see below) to prevent you from getting many attacks in. I'd take some damage early, but you'll need to remove my Dragonscale Hauberk and Elemental Cloak if you hope to get much damage through with Lash of Hellfire and Lord of Fire, which buys me time to get things in place to kite you. I don't know how consistently it would work out in my favor, but I think I actually have some pretty good options against that type of opening. That opening is somewhat similar to one of my Warlock openings, so I can definitely see where you're coming from.

Against your Priestess opening I'm somewhat less sure. I could build up armor, which would drastically reduce the damage your Royal Archers will do, but won't have much impact on Brogan. I would need to focus on attacking your Priestess while playing keep away with Brogan. This build has tools to do that, but I'm less sure how to deal with a stream of big creatures than I am how to deal with a bunch of small creatures. In retrospect, Enfeeble is much better for this build than Force Hold. They both prevent melee creatures from closing with me effectively, but Force Hold has an upkeep. If you don't have ranged support, I can probably kite you pretty effectively, but with ranged attackers backing up powerful melee attackers chasing me around, I'm less sure. Another possibility is to use Wall of Fire to control spacing. If I block line of sight to your Archers, things become more manageable.

I tend to focus on low creature count builds. The Wizard can set up a powerful slow army, but this build is supposed to focus blasting things rather than using the slow arcane creatures. I tried to get a blasting Wizard to work without the buildup time, but I didn't have enough mana to do everything I needed to do. Activating Voltaric Shield most turns eats up a lot of mana over the course of a game.
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Tacullu64

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2013, 08:57:27 PM »
Since your planning on resisting damage, have you considered avoiding damage.  Add in some combination of Bracers of Deflection, Cobra Reflexes, Force Orb, Force Sword, and the Ring of Defense from the new expansion.

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 09:21:37 PM »
You may be right that I should include at least some creature support. I'm adding Lord of Fire. Then I have the option of the slow build up I described above or playing Lord of Fire on turn 2 if I want to be aggressive.

Miss chances are certainly nice, but I think I prefer focusing on armor supplementing my Voltaric Shield. If I was going to focus on miss chances, I'd want to play a lightning Wizard, and add daze/stun chances to defenses.

I've modified the list a bit, and it should be more flexible and a bit stronger. Here's the modified list:

Creatures (13)

Huginn, Raven Familiar
Adramelech, Lord of Fire

Equipment (17)

Dragonscale Hauberk
Elemental Cloak
Leather Gloves
Leather Boots
Mage Wand x2
Elemental Wand x2
Regrowth Belt
Mage Staff
Moonglow Amulet
Fireshaper Ring

Conjurations (20)

Battleforge
Mana Crystal x3
Wall of Fire x4
Mordok’s Obelisk
Suppression Orb

Enchantments (20)

Bear Strength
Hawkeye
Mongoose Agility
Cheetah Speed
Nullify x3
Harmonize
Enfeeble x2

Incantations (31)

Teleport x3
Force Push x4
Dispel x3
Seeking Dispel x2
Dissolve x2
Explode x2
Sleep

Attacks (19)

Fireblast x6
Fireball x4
Ring of Fire
Firestorm
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piousflea

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2013, 10:31:35 PM »
I've played a number of "nuking" Wizards and in general, I've found that trying to win with straight up nukes doesn't work. It is much better to soften up your enemy with creatures +/- melee attacks, then go for nukes as a killing blow.

Mathematically speaking: The biggest Fireball you can throw is 8 dice (6 base +2 Ranged). A fireball will inflict an average of 0.92 Burns, for 2.76 Burn damage over 2 rounds. Therefore, against zero armor and zero fire resistance, your Fireball will hit for an average of 10.76 damage over 2 rounds.

This means that you will need a minimum of 4 Fireballs (32 Mana) to kill a full health Mage. Throw in armor, Blocks and Heals, and you will need more than 4. (which means they'll need to be Wanded, which further increases mana cost) Basically, it is incredibly inefficient to kill a full health Mage with just nukes.

You'll be much more effective if you start the game by harassing with a Gorgon Archer and some Blue Gremlins to get some damage on the enemy mage first. Once he is wounded, Fireballs become exponentially more powerful. In the absence of Armor, you WILL kill a half-health Mage in a single round using two Fireballs (16 Mana).

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 10:54:37 PM »
That makes sense Piousflea, although I don't like the arcane creatures (aside from maybe Huginn) for this build. My experience when I tried to make a blasting build without an economy focused opening was that I ran out of gas, and I just didn't have enough mana to do all of the things I needed to get done, so my experience parallels yours to some extent. I do have a melee option built into this build, so I'll have to experiment with doing that and/or playing Lord of Fire early. I can switch into blasting in the late game or at least after I have Lord of Fire out.

Losing a Fireball to a Block is pretty bad, so against face down enchantments I like to Fireblast and follow that up with Fireball. I only lose 2 dice of damage, it's 3 mana cheaper, and it's a much safer play against Block.
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sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 05:34:23 PM »
In retrospect, Arcane Ring is probably a good card to include. It wouldn't be a good card to include if I was going to do the opening I originally mentioned, since it would slow down my mana generation buildup, but for a more flexible opening, it's a good choice.

Arcane Ring -> Mana Crystal gives me more flexible options on turn 2 than Battleforge -> Harmonize. That way I can choose to cast Lord of Fire, Huginn, or Battleforge, and I'm toying with adding another big creature instead of an Enfeeble and a Wall of Fire or 2.
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Tacullu64

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 07:12:05 PM »
Quote from: "sdougla2" post=8493
In retrospect, Arcane Ring is probably a good card to include. It wouldn't be a good card to include if I was going to do the opening I originally mentioned, since it would slow down my mana generation buildup, but for a more flexible opening, it's a good choice.

Arcane Ring -> Mana Crystal gives me more flexible options on turn 2 than Battleforge -> Harmonize. That way I can choose to cast Lord of Fire, Huginn, or Battleforge, and I'm toying with adding another big creature instead of an Enfeeble and a Wall of Fire or 2.


If you play Battleforge and Harmonize on turn 1 you can deploy the Arcane Ring without using any of your wizards mana on turn 2 and still have 18 mana and 2 actions. This leaves you quite a few options to counter your opponent's moves.

Is The Lord of Fire the right creature for this spellbook? I don't question him as a quality beat stick. It's just you could put in 2 Gorgon Archers or combine 1 with a Darkfenne Hydra and have two extra spell points to use. Thematically he is a good fit for a fire wizard.

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 07:28:51 PM »
My problem with Gorgon Archers and Darkfenne Hydra is that I want to be running around kiting my opponent. Gorgon Archers need a great deal of support to prevent them from getting rushed and killed, and Darkfenne Hydra is too slow to keep up without Teleporting/Force Pushing him all over the place. I like Gorgon Archer and Darkfenne Hydra for a control build that aims to erode its' opponent's board position over time, but that's not what I want to do with this build.

I agree that Lord of Fire might be prohibitively expensive for this build, but I prefer him for a few reasons. He's better against swarms, he's faster, if he gets Mind Controlled I can ignore him once I have my armor and cloak on, and he's better at actually killing things. I really like the dark creatures, and I think they fit what I want for this build better than the arcane creatures.
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Tacullu64

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 08:17:46 PM »
Quote from: "sdougla2" post=8503
My problem with Gorgon Archers and Darkfenne Hydra is that I want to be running around kiting my opponent. Gorgon Archers need a great deal of support to prevent them from getting rushed and killed, and Darkfenne Hydra is too slow to keep up without Teleporting/Force Pushing him all over the place. I like Gorgon Archer and Darkfenne Hydra for a control build that aims to erode its' opponent's board position over time, but that's not what I want to do with this build.

I agree that Lord of Fire might be prohibitively expensive for this build, but I prefer him for a few reasons. He's better against swarms, he's faster, if he gets Mind Controlled I can ignore him once I have my armor and cloak on, and he's better at actually killing things. I really like the dark creatures, and I think they fit what I want for this build better than the arcane creatures.


Sounds like your set on the LoF. One last option, Necropian Vampiress. One of the dark school's best creatures and you'd have enough spell points left over to throw in a Bear Strength for her.

One more negative for LoF could be his popularity with warlocks. The only reason this is an issue is your low creature count and his legendary status. If you play against a lot of warlocks and they get him out first you'll be denied your only attack creature until you destroy theirs.

On a side note, since you brought up Mind Control, what's your plan for the Forcemaster. If she becomes/stays popular she could be problematic for low creature count builds. Her introduction has me pondering the number of creatures I've put in my spellbooks. To date she seems like the best one on one fighter.

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 09:17:42 PM »
I've been considering Necropian Vampiress as well. She's easier to fit into my opening, since she's cheaper, and I agree it would be nice to avoid getting locked out of Lord of Fire by a Warlock.

I'm still in the preliminary stages of evaluating my Forcemaster build. So far my opening is:

Turn 1 (20): Cheetah Speed -> advance 2 spaces -> Battleforge (7)
Turn 2 (17): Force Blade from Battleforge -> Bear Strength or Force Pull -> melee (2 or 6)

I'm wondering if other people will adopt similar strategies, or whether they'll opt for a few Thoughtspores and/or an Invisible Stalker. Against a solo equipment build, Voltaric Shield will help immensely, and I'll need to get some armor against Spinning Slash (and Dancing Scimitar and Invisible Fist/Force Hammer). Kiting her will be extremely difficult, and it's problematical to rely on a single big creature to protect me from her due to Mind Control and Charm. I'll need to keep a Nullify on my creature in order to avoid the FM stealing it.

I'm thinking a Lord of Fire opening makes sense against this type of play. He's incredibly expensive to Mind Control, and I can defend myself against a Mind Controlled Lord of Fire with fire resist. If I keep him out, I should have a big advantage in a damage race (as long as I don't let her keep a Forcefield out), and if she steals him I'll have an enormous mana advantage (upkeep 6 hurts). If she Charms him I can still guard with him, and Sleep is incredibly expensive when I can just Arcane Zap or melee him back awake.

Against a FM backed up with mind creatures I'm less sure. Her control abilities are powerful, and her damage output should be phenomenal. Lord of Fire might be too expensive and susceptible to control. I'll probably have to shoot down Thoughtspores, but I'm not sure if that will be enough.
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Tacullu64

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 09:28:20 PM »
If I was playing the Forcemaster I think I would Charm LoF for the lower upkeep. I don't think using a charmed creature to guard will be as effective as people think. She has her Force Pull spell ability and while you didn't mention it, I was planning on using Mongoose Agility on her so she can bypass guards.

The Forcemaster is by know means overpowered or unbalancing. She does bring a new style to the game which I think we'll have to account for since I'm certain she'll be popular.

sdougla2

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Re: Fire Wizard
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 09:38:46 PM »
I agree that Charm + Force Pull is effective, and I'll certainly include a Mongoose Agility in my FM build, but it means she's spending actions less damage efficiently than she could be, which will make my Voltaric Shield a bit more effective that turn (no Spinning Slash, Invisible Fist, or Force Hammer that turn), giving me time to Dispel Charm or Mongoose Agility. Don't get me wrong, Charm and Mongoose Agility will still be annoying, but getting her to space out her attacks will make Voltaric Shield more effective, and buy me some time. I'll have to see how that works out in practice.
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