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Author Topic: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations  (Read 2330 times)

Mathias

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Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« on: March 04, 2013, 01:50:15 PM »
Hi all,

From now on you'll depict me as a nitwit, but I mention this for rule consistency.

Rules state that conjurations have the finite life trait thus can not regain health in any way.
If a Goblin Builder may ignore this finite life trait "because his text say so"
then finite life loses all its meaning because minor heal should as well be able to heal anything with
finite life because "the card says it can heal" and thus overrides game rules.

Mathias

DarthDadaD20

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Re: Goblin builder - hold your hammer!
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 02:16:51 PM »
Well first off, in the Casting line of minor heal, the target is-living creatures, so the text says, living creatures, Goblin builder does not. Second, goblin builder says "take one damage off" and has a target of-conjuration,it doesnt say heal. And no, I dont depict you as a nitwit. There are no stupid questions. Stupid answers maybe, but no stupid questions.
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it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
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Gewar

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Re: Goblin builder - hold your hammer!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 02:17:54 PM »
From Codex:
Quote
Finite Life
This creature cannot heal, regenerate, or gain life. If the creature gained Life
before it gained this trait, it keeps that Life but cannot gain additional Life.
All Nonliving objects have Finite Life.


It says nothing about object with Finite Life can not have damage removed.
Finite life prevents from:
- Healing (Minor Heal etc. - anything that uses "heal" word)
- Regenerating (Regrowth Belt etc. - "regenerate" word)
- Gaining Life (Bull Endurance etc. - anything that makes oject's maximum life bigger)
Removing damage is neither of those

EDIT:
You again, Darth. One day I'll prove I am faster typer, one day...
"I've seen this spell before - sold in alleys, brothels, and taverns. Men want more life. Always, they want more life."
- Rae Ashar, Wench of the Flying Dragon

DarthDadaD20

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Re: Goblin builder - hold your hammer!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 02:20:05 PM »
^ (Gewar post)Goblin builder says "Remove damage"
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Shad0w

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Re: Goblin builder - hold your hammer!
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 02:53:35 PM »
Your both lucky I have been crazy busy at work.

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"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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Mathias

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 03:56:05 PM »
Hi Darth and Gewar

I don't disagree with you. And ofcourse the goblin builder should work that way, adding an useless card would be... useless :p

However, what is the difference between de wording "healing" and "repairing"?
IMO it is 'the act of removing damage' or 'restoring life'.

Consider these sentences:
My mage heals one point of damage. Result, the mage removes one damages.
My building get repaired by one point of damage. Result, one damage will be removed from te building.

If there would ever be a monk who can meditate: e.g. "When meditating, remove three damage counters." How will Finite Life apply in this case? The monk is restoring, but since he is removing damaging he is not healing himselve.

Potatoes - Potatoes :p

Arcanus

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 04:21:06 PM »
Ha! This is a good debate I stumbled across!   :)

The Goblin Builder's ability is not considered healing. This was intentional by design.

This is the first time we have a damage removal ability which is not healing.  In every other case it is considered healing (and clearly states it as such on the card or in the Codex).

Thematically, he is repairing a building or structure, and not actually healing flesh and blood. We felt it s was fine to allow this exception and not use the word "healing" in his text, in order to maintain flavor and realism.

Yes, we could have/should have also said "Nonliving", to maintain theme, but we were trying to cut back on the number of traits and keywords used.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 04:44:02 PM »
Quote from: "Mathias" post=8627


Potatoes - Potatoes :p

If someone didn't know that saying...they just might think you are crazy about potatoes! :lol:  :silly:  :lol:  I'm sorry, I'm done.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Skytale

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 06:42:03 PM »
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=8630
Yes, we could have/should have also said "Nonliving", to maintain theme, but we were trying to cut back on the number of traits and keywords used.


Well, that just means there's no need to create a separate "goblin horticulturalist" spell for the druid.

Arcanus

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 06:45:08 PM »
Ha!

Drealin

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Re: Goblin builder and Finite Life on conjurations
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 02:08:17 PM »
Quote from: "Mathias" post=8627
Consider these sentences:
My mage heals one point of damage. Result, the mage removes one damages.
My building get repaired by one point of damage. Result, one damage will be removed from te building.

If there would ever be a monk who can meditate: e.g. "When meditating, remove three damage counters." How will Finite Life apply in this case? The monk is restoring, but since he is removing damaging he is not healing himselve.

Consider this:
A pipe is clogged so a plumber uses a plumber's snake to clear it.  Result, clog is cleared.
A piece of food is lodged in your throat.  Do you really want a plumber to remove it with a plumber's snake?  No, you want someone to use the Heimlich on you to remove it.

The method you use to do something is at least as, if not more so, important than the net outcome.
While the same thing could be used in similar situations, it won't always provide the same outcome.