Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Sailor Vulcan on June 25, 2013, 09:45:35 AM

Title: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 25, 2013, 09:45:35 AM
Guide to the Applications of Forcemaster Newton's Laws of Motion


4 Forcehammer


1 Suppression Orb
4 Fog Bank


1 Invisible Stalker
4 Thoughtspore


2 Forcefield
2 Force Crush
4 Force Hold
6 Block
3 Cheetah Speed
3 Mongoose Agility
6 Nullify
6 Stumble


1 Galvitar, Force Blade
1 Psi Orb
1 Dancing Scimitar


4 Dissolve
4 Dispel
4 Seeking Dispel

Since I'm taking summer classes, I probably don't have time to test it online very frequently before I buy the sets I need. The only cards I need that aren't in Core or FM vs WL sets are the 6 Stumbles.

This build is essentially a Cat and Mouse strategy. First I surround myself with a couple of Fog Banks to keep them from targeting me or my zone within the first couple turns in the hopes of keeping them from destroying my first few enchantments on myself, so that I can get my strategy's momentum going. I also use have Nullify to help with this. After that I put Cheetah Speed and Mongoose Agility on myself. Once those are revealed, I can either start chasing the enemy mage right away, or I can summon Invisible Stalker or cast my Dancing Scimitar first. If the enemy mage is in range, I use Force Hold or Force Crush to trap him or her, set a stumble on so that he or she will be easier to catch if/when they escape, use a Dissolve to get rid of any troublesome equipment if necessary, and start attacking. My Invisible Stalker will either help me attack the mage, or take care of creatures and conjurations that threaten me, along with the help of my Thoughtspores' Force Hammers.

I protect myself using Block and later Forcefield, as well as the Dancing Scimitar and my Deflect ability.

So what do you think? How good is this spellbook? Do you think it might be ready for local level organized play? Since I have classes this summer, I won't be able to test it a ton, so I'm hoping that this list is ready to hold its own before I buy the sets I need for it, even if it doesn't excel or have the best chance of winning that it can get. That way it will be usable in a tournament, but I would still have room to test, tweak and improve it. Does anyone know when the next expansion is coming out so I can get Stumble?

Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: sdougla2 on June 25, 2013, 04:18:53 PM
Your damage potential is a bit low for a Forcemaster. No Bear Strength, no Battle Fury, no Gauntlets of Strength... Your best attack option is Doublestrike with Galvitar, attack with Dancing Scimitar, then Force Hammer, which gives you an attack sequence of 4, 4, 3, 6, but it's very mana intensive, and it's not as powerful as a buffed Battle Fury turn can be.

You don't need 4 Dissolve or 4 Seeking Dispel, and I doubt you need 4 Dispel. You definitely don't need 6 Blocks, 4 Force Hold, 6 Nullify, 3 Cheetah Speed, 3 Mongoose Agility, or 6 Stumble.

You need Teleports and Force Pushes for position control. Add some armor. Try Sleep. Add more equipment.
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 26, 2013, 06:39:10 AM
And....there goes the premise of the spellbook. I can't believe I forgot about teleport. If I had remembered that I would have realized that this build doesn't fit the forcemaster. Considering that it's so enchantment heavy, I'm currently trying to revamp this build as midrange-control using a beastmaster, shadow of the forest, that pixie familiar that can only cast enchantments, and Force Hold. Once I have a 120 point spellbook list again I will repost.

Thanks for your help! I'll keep what you've said in mind if and when I build a Forcemaster spellbook in the future (which I probably will.)
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: nitrodavid on June 26, 2013, 06:47:32 AM
post when you want to change it to beast master so i can update it in the spell book sticky topic
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 27, 2013, 07:37:49 PM
Johktari Chase (Midrange-Control)

Mage: Johktari Beastmaster


1 Sandstorm


6 Mana Flower
6 Mana Crystal
4 Enchanter's Wardstone


3 Fellella, Pixie Familiar
3 Cervere, Shadow of the Forest


3 Stumble
2 Cheetah Speed
3 Nullify
3 Mongoose Agility
4 Rhino Hide
4 Bear Strength
3 Enfeeble
2 Regrowth


2 Elemental Wand
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Sunfire Amulet
1 Staff of Beasts


2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
4 Shift Enchantment

Here it is. I start off in the first few turns with some preparation. I cast Mongoose Agility on myself and start walking/jogging around planting mana flowers and crystals, as well as a few Enchanter's Wardstones. Then I can equip my elemental wand with my Sandstorm spellbound to it, to help keep creatures off my back. I also put on some other equipment in the meantime, like Sunfire Amulet to build up my health, Enchanter's Ring to make later enchantments cost a bit less, and Staff of Beasts for added support for my creatures once I've summoned them. If I still have time to do so, I can enchant myself with a Regrowth to further bolster my resilience.

Once I have enough mana I can summon my familiar, have it enchanted with both a cheetah speed and a mongoose agility, and it can start running--I mean flying around with me. But I'm not flying. After that I'll summon Cervere, Shadow of the Forest, and have my Pixie enchant it with a Rhino Hide, or if that's not necessary right then, a Bear Strength. After that, Rawr! My ferocious kitty starts chasing the opposing mage, and Fellella and I follow close behind for support. This support includes my Spellbound Sandstorm to keep enemy creatures away, some Stumbles and Enfeebles to slow down the enemy mage's movement and possible the movement of their most important creatures too, and Rhino Hides and Bear Strengths to strengthen Cervere.

So what do you think? Both of my spellbook and of my impression of a young, somewhat obsessed Mage Wars fangirl. I channeled that personality without even thinking about it. :P
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: nitrodavid on June 27, 2013, 07:54:56 PM
I don't think you will ever be able to plant 12 zone exclusives (mana flower and crystals) perhaps wait until the release of the druid as she will be able summon plants around the field regardless of range or Los (based on description).

I understand you hedging your bets by having both efficient flame weak flowers and expensive flame immune crystals. but try 3 of each and add more tangle vines and walls of thorns.
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: reddawn on June 27, 2013, 08:23:23 PM
Don't forget that spells like Ghoul Rot and Chains of Agony are good ways to make sure you can make use of Wounded Prey every round.

Edit: Also, those new Dire Wolves seem pretty good here.  They swing for 6 dice on a Wounded Prey target.
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 27, 2013, 09:21:07 PM
Nitrodavid, I think I will take your advice and use the druid for this build once the new expansion's released. While I don't know what abilities she has (or he, if there eventually is a male version), the idea of being able to cast a bunch of mana flowers early in the game without running all around the board would be perfect for this build. Now that I think about it, considering that Midrange strategies rely on mana acceleration to work, the fact that I didn't include any Walls to guard my flowers and crystals was kind of dumb of me. The tanglevines will probably help a lot, especially if the Druid is able to cast them from anywhere regardless of LoS. Considering that several of the cards in this build are currently only available as promos (the Stumbles, Enchanter's Wardstones and the Sunfire Amulet), I'm thinking that the Druid will be my best bet. Since I'm not so sure that the Druid will have the fast trait, I decided to increase the Cheetah Speed count to 3. I also removed the Beast Staff. Thanks for telling me about the Druid. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought to look on the wiki page for possible upcoming mages. Now I suppose you'll have to create a WIP category or something, since the Mage for this build hasn't been released yet?
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: ringkichard on June 27, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
Hey Imaginator! Welcome to Mage wars!

So, here's the thing: "The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than theory."

I think you need to play a few more games against an intermediate level player before you're going to be able to design a list that works well for league games. I think you're over-estimating your available prep-turns, and this feels more like a Magic the Gathering decklist than a Mage Wars book: you seem to have included 12 "land". In MtG, this would be sensible, but in mage wars, playing resource conjurations costs both mana and actions, and anything more than 3 is probably overkill. Conjurations are vulnerable to creature attacks, so you're going to have a miserable time defending them all, especially because in the early game the only thing you will have cast will be other conjurations and Fellella, who is a pest and can't guard.

In your first post, you talked about getting this book ready for organized play or maybe even tournaments, and while I know that you're busy with school, if you want this book to work you're going to need to play some more games. Things will look very different to you with some more experience, I think.

Some notes:
You may only have 1 legendary creature of a given name in play at any time. This means that you could cast one Fellella, and one Cervere, but then you would not be able to cast any more creatures until one died.

Sandstorm is not yet tournament legal, and is only available as a promo. Did you get yours at Origins?

One attack spell with a wand is not a long term plan. When they disolve your wand, you lose the spell. Also, you have two elemental wands listed in the book, but only one attack spell to attach. You won't be able to use that second wand, even if you cast it.

Even if they don't break that wand, Sandstorm costs 8 mana and does 2 dice of damage. You will not be able to kill a Steelclaw Grizzly or an Iron Golem or a Lord of Fire or any legendary angel with that. You need a plan for large creatures. Your opponents aren't going to be able to use guards against Cervere, so they'll try to kill him, probably with big creatures of their own.

There is some value in giving Fellella Cheetah Speed, and some value in giving her Mongoose Agility, but you're proposing to spend 2 actions and 10 mana to keep your 12 mana familiar maneuverable. She already flies, so only other flyers will hinder her, and all enchantments have a range of 2, so she usually doesn't have to move that much anyway.

Sandstorm is unavoidable and will hurt Fallella badly if she gets caught in it, because of the +2 vs flying. This would mean that you'd have to keep Fellella away from your Beastmaster's zone, which means you wouldn't be able to support her.

Johktari Beastmaster has +1 to ranged attacks, but you are not including any way for her to use it, even though you intend to use her as support for Cervere. You have not included any weapons or armor for your Beastmaster, other than wands.


I know all that can sound discouraging, but all of these things are fixable, and you'll be able to fix them with just a bit more experience. I feel like it's better to know that now than to walk into league night unprepared. My recommendation is to buy the base set if you don't have it, and play a few games with the starter books. If that's not an option, you could look into playing online; there are some threads on these forums about that.
I don't think octgn is likely a great way to learn the game, but you seem smart and enthusiastic, so you'd probably manage fine.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 27, 2013, 11:03:56 PM
Just so you know, I actually already have OCTGN and that's where I first was taught how to play. Before that I watched most if not all of the tutorial videos on youtube. Maybe you're right that learning how to play online wasn't the best idea, since it makes it harder to keep things straight in my head, especially since that game was interrupted by internet problems almost as soon as my opponent finished teaching me all the basics.

I haven't actually bought the game yet, since I was hoping to test online before I bought it. But I've been having some trouble finding opponents on there for some reason.

Um the sandstorm and Fellella thing. Wow, that was also a stupid mistake on my part. Also, if you read the last few posts, you'd see that someone already pointed out the exact same issue with the mana flowers/crystals. I know that this isn't MtG. The reason I put the mana acceleration in there at all is because this is a MIDRANGE build, and as far as I know Midrange needs mana acceleration regardless of whether the game is MtG or Mage Wars. If it wasn't a midrange build, I probably wouldn't have put any flowers/crystals in at all. The wand thing was also good to point out. Also, it was already stated that this spellbook will probably be better suited for the Druid once it is released.

You're right, I do need more experience. I very much appreciate your advice, and that you at least attempted to give it without sounding exasperated and condescending. Next time you might want to wait a little bit and read over what you write more before posting. Nevertheless, I'm still glad that you posted. I find your advice quite helpful.

Also, shouldn't it be "Theory is greater with practice than theory alone"? Since saying "the difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than theory" means that "the difference" is greater in practice, rather than "the theory" being greater in practice. I'm pretty sure you were NOT trying to say that someone can't recognize the distinction between theory and practice without practicing their recognition. Seriously, who on Earth are you quoting who would make such a simple concept sound so long and confusing that the person talking about it doesn't realize that they're saying something completely different?
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: reddawn on June 28, 2013, 01:58:32 AM
Basically what RK's quote means is this:

1. There is a big difference between practice and theory (the obvious part of the statement)
2. You can really only understand the magnitude of this difference by playing the game (the less obvious part)

And he's absolutely right.  That quote was essentially a nice way of saying that you need some gameplay experience under your belt before you can build a good custom spellbook.  Hence, why he suggested using the premade spellbooks, because they are easy to prepare and offer a wide array of playing the game and understanding how all the pieces fit. 

And I understand it can be hard to find someone to play with.  I'm pretty lucky, since I can play regularly against an opponent who is just as competitive as I am, but most are not so fortunate.

Also, I would be very wary of player-made video strategy advice at this time; most if not all of it isn't high-level play. 

When it comes down to it, due to MW's semi-simultaneous nature of play, it's very hard to get a good idea about the game without just playing.  It is rare that your opponent won't immediately respond to your moves (in fact, if your opponent chooses to pass, it's a pretty good indicator that they have something up their sleeve).  This is what makes the game so great, but it also heightens the learning curve heavily in favor of the more experienced player.

If you like, pm me about playing on OCTGN.  I've only played IRL, but online would be fun too.  As a college student, I'm basically glued to my desk anyway, so I could play with you regularly.  I'm confident I'm a good enough player to give you practical advice that you can use IRL once you have the basics down.
Title: Re: Newton Style (Aggro-Control spellbook)
Post by: Fentum on June 28, 2013, 05:31:56 AM
I haven't actually bought the game yet, since I was hoping to test online before I bought it. But I've been having some trouble finding opponents on there for some reason.

PLEASE go buy the game if you are planning to use OCTGN. It's only fair for the publisher.   :)