Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: overseern on February 19, 2014, 11:30:36 am

Title: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: overseern on February 19, 2014, 11:30:36 am
Since Dancing Scimitar is Autonomous... If I use it as a defense, can the mage still use a personal defense such as deflection shield if the scimitar fails its roll?
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: kailas on February 19, 2014, 12:45:52 pm
Page 24 of Mage Wars rulebook, a creature can never use more than one Defense against a single attack.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Zuberi on February 19, 2014, 02:49:02 pm
Kailas is correct, even though the defense comes from autonomous equipment, it still counts against this limit.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: DrunkenSaint on February 19, 2014, 04:38:54 pm
not a direct comment, but a related question, if the scimitar attacks a guard... does the guard counter?
The image that I have in my head says no. the guard is tied up with a sword he cant turn his back on it to hit the mage..... but I have no idea what is actually going on in terms of game mechanics when equipment is attacking autonomously...  ( I do not yet have this expansion and so apologize if it is outlined in the rules, just a matter of curiosity on my part.)
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: ACG on February 19, 2014, 04:41:23 pm
Edit: The scimitar has to attack the guard, but does not trigger a counterstrike/damage barrier and does not remove the guard marker.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Shad0w on February 19, 2014, 05:51:46 pm
Edit: The scimitar has to attack the guard, but does not trigger a counterstrike/damage barrier and does not remove the guard marker.

When working on autonomous equipment I wanted it to be used before or after friendly creature action and to remove guard but this proved to be a bit unbalanced.  :'(
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Zuberi on February 19, 2014, 06:57:58 pm
Drunken Saint, if you care to learn about expansions that you don't currently own, you can find all of the rules, FAQ, card distributions, and codex entries here: http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources-and-downloads
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: DrunkenSaint on February 19, 2014, 11:01:16 pm
Drunken Saint, if you care to learn about expansions that you don't currently own, you can find all of the rules, FAQ, card distributions, and codex entries here: http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources-and-downloads

lol, even as I hit submit I thought to myself "I could just look this up" but it was too late! My die was cast!
At that point I decided that looking it up on my own would just be dis-respective of the time anyone took to post a reply! I would wait patiently and read avidly! In the future though I will try at least a tad harder to find the answer before asking the question! Thank you for your prompt responses and apt answers!
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: overseern on February 20, 2014, 10:48:59 am
I know the page 24 rule thanks  :D... That is the issue... If autonomous does it override the single defense rule... as for now I will go with the page 24 rule until I get an official answer
 :)
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Zuberi on February 20, 2014, 12:02:48 pm
You kind of were already pointed to the official answer, guy. Page 24 of the rulebook. You can confirm this by reading the codex entry for autonomous if you'd like. It never mentions allowing the creature to break the limit on rolling defenses, and therefore it does not affect this limit.

I'm not sure what more you could want. If you are expecting a conversation with Mr. Pope himself over a question clearly answered in the rules already, you may be waiting awhile.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: wtcannonjr on February 20, 2014, 08:48:55 pm
Agreed - the rulebook and codex cover this issue. One defense only per attack.

If you want to reroll a failed defense roll, then try Temple of the Dawnbreaker.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: overseern on February 27, 2014, 10:58:56 am
Seems like I offended some people, sorry if I chose words poorly. I am in total agreement with the rules and ruleing. I am running an experimental mage wars campaign over a 10 week period. There are points added to books for win or lose, levels to unlock default books, arena challenges and prizes at our local game store. I have over 18 people involved. So this question has been heavily debated, with a few saying they want an "Official Ruling" LOL. Thus my comment that I would rule based on current page 24 and faq until I am told I am officially in error LOL... Thanks for all the input and help. :)
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Shad0w on February 27, 2014, 11:39:24 am
I agree with the rule book and since help on the rules team is that good enough? :P
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Zuberi on February 27, 2014, 04:22:13 pm
I don't think you offended anyone, especially not me. My statement might have been a little harsh, I sometimes seem to do that, but the reason I made it is because I consider the rulebook and FAQ to be the highest authority of the game. They are THE official statement. Thus, I didn't see the point of asking a question again when the documents had answered it. Shad0w's statement may help to alleviate your debate.

Thinking about it, I suppose I can understand your groups confusion. The rules on page 24 are quite clear that the creature can not use more than one defense, so it seems your player's are probably trying to argue that the Mage has yet to actually use a defense themselves. The Dancing Scimitar card does not state that the Mage gains a defense like other similar cards do (Reflex Boots for instance), and between the Codex and FAQ it is clear that thematically the Scimitar is acting independently (even though it must follow the Mage around).

Thus, I think we can all agree thematically that the defense originates from the sword. It is the one doing the work and actually creating the defense. However, the question isn't regarding where the Defense comes from, it is regarding what is using the defense. The word use has several definitions, including "to exploit," "to avail oneself of," and "to apply to one's own purposes."

And so, if they want to say that it is the Scimitar that is acting to create the defense, I will agree with them. If they want to say that the Scimitar used the defense to protect the Mage, I will agree with them. If they want to say that the Mage did not use the defense to avoid getting hit, I will have to disagree. The Mage clearly made use of a defense and thus the Mage can not make use of another defense against the same attack.

I hope that with that logic, the rules on page 24, and the official word from Shad0w, you can put the issue to rest and finally quell any dissent within your group.
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: overseern on February 28, 2014, 05:59:19 am
Ive agreed and made similar comments as both Zuberi and Shad0w. Thank you both for all the input. The human condition is often to find the exploit especially in competition. The few who doubted my words have already moved to other debates LOL. The crowd thar gathers at my local store loves a good debate... The Spock vs Chewbacca debate has been going 6 months now LOL. I love gamers and Mage Wars has brought us many hours of gaming goodness... Thanks Guys!
Title: Re: Dancing Scimitar defense
Post by: Zuberi on February 28, 2014, 06:22:21 am
I'm sure many on here will atest to my love of debates, lol. Do not hesitate to turn here if you need any more help in your discussions. I'm actually intrigued by this Spock vs Chewbacca debate you speak of. Surely Spock wins >_>