Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laddinfance on March 03, 2014, 08:27:32 AM

Title: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Laddinfance on March 03, 2014, 08:27:32 AM
Our Forged in Fire previews began today! You can find the article for Adramelech's Touch right >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/forged-in-fire-preview-adramelechs-touch). Thoughts on this new curse? Will you employ this portion of Adramelech's power?
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: jacksmack on March 03, 2014, 08:39:28 AM
Its very difficult to tell if this card has its place.

Rolling 0 with a burn condition is bad... with this card its still bad, but less so.
The times where your burns are on fire - so to speak - this card is wasted.

Also it has to be revealed before the upkeep, meaning you wont see the result of the burn roll.
I like the mana cost of it, but the spellpoint cost is probaly too steep for the priest who really could use such a card.

I doubt any other mages than the warlock will be able to use this card (successfully).

Also i would have loved this effect to be global through a conjuration.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: webcatcher on March 03, 2014, 09:06:54 AM
Fire wizard could get good mileage out of it (reference previous discussions about how a wizard can use everything because they have no opposed school, lots of potential trained schools, and SP to burn).
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: lettucemode on March 03, 2014, 10:25:45 AM
The article on this preview says this:

Quote
The best aspect of Adramelech’s Touch is how it helps enable many of the other cards in Forged in Fire. Between cards that want curses on the target, to cards that want the target burning; the alternate Warlock will surely want a couple Adramelech’s Touch spells in his spellbook.

This card isn't very impressive in a vacuum, but it appears as though there will be other cards that only have an effect if there are burns/curses on the target, or increase in effect the more burns/curses there are. Adramelech's Touch will have great value when played with those cards.

Not sure if using a Mage's action to cast this is worth it, however it's a nice use of action for Syserix or whatever his name is. Then you can bring the Fireball pain on subsequent rounds.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: isel on March 03, 2014, 10:30:20 AM
Good art, bad card, i believe itīs expensive in level (2), and itīs effect itīs very bad, i prefer put 2 spells of level one that this card, 2 flameblast and better burning.
Title: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on March 03, 2014, 11:05:37 AM
I don't think it's necessarily a bad card. While just stacking more burns is more likely to deal more damage in general, this card should be great against extinguish.

And you think it's expensive? It looks rather inexpensive to me.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on March 03, 2014, 11:10:34 AM
I can certainly see where it's got it's place. If you're playing a fire heavy Warlock this could be a useful little curse. Little dependent on the situation but that's ok.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Wildhorn on March 03, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
I think its time to bring back the burn damage chart back with this spell in the equation.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Bluebaron on March 03, 2014, 11:38:09 AM
Nice Card for the warlock. And very thematic. Like the flavour of it.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: kailas on March 03, 2014, 12:28:25 PM
I think it's very nice card for Burn builds!
If i remember correctly, Bryan said that Burn does average 2 damage before dissapearing (or 1?).
Can someone calculate damage increase after few rounds with few Burns, when does it pay off? My head doesnt work today...
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Aylin on March 03, 2014, 12:41:20 PM
Also it has to be revealed before the upkeep, meaning you wont see the result of the burn roll.
I like the mana cost of it, but the spellpoint cost is probaly too steep for the priest who really could use such a card.

What prevents this from being revealed after you roll the burns?

Not sure if using a Mage's action to cast this is worth it, however it's a nice use of action for Syserix or whatever his name is. Then you can bring the Fireball pain on subsequent rounds.

Sectarus is another option for using it, though the Familiar method might have more synergy because of leaving the hand free for LoH.


Also this is a seriously nasty card. Maybe even worth taking as as a Priest, since it unbounds the damage from burns!
Average damage before: 3/2 * Sum(n=1 to T) (2/3)^n
Average damage now: T [average mana cost = (9+T)/3]
With T = number of turns

I think it's very nice card for Burn builds!
If i remember correctly, Bryan said that Burn does average 2 damage before dissapearing (or 1?).
Can someone calculate damage increase after few rounds with few Burns, when does it pay off? My head doesnt work today...

It depends on how long a period you consider. If you say T=infinity it goes to 3.

If you expand the first several turns out from the series:
1 + 2/3 + 4/9 + 8/27 + 16/81 + 32/243 + 64/729 + 128/2187 + 256/6561 + 512/19683...
~= 1 + .67 + .44 + .30 + .20 + .13 + .09 + .06 + .04 + .03...

So: (approximately)
1: 1
2: 1.67
3: 2.11
4: 2.41
5: 2.61
6: 2.74
7: 2.83
8: 2.89
9: 2.93
10: 2.96
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: jacksmack on March 03, 2014, 12:49:04 PM
Also it has to be revealed before the upkeep, meaning you wont see the result of the burn roll.
I like the mana cost of it, but the spellpoint cost is probaly too steep for the priest who really could use such a card.

What prevents this from being revealed after you roll the burns?

Resolving a burn marker is a single step.
if the roll is a 0 then the burn is gone before this can be revealed.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: lettucemode on March 03, 2014, 01:08:04 PM
Another way to say it: during the Ready Stage, you can only reveal enchantments in between phases. If you are rolling for Burns, you are in the middle of the Upkeep phase and don't get a chance to reveal until after the phase is over. Any burns that roll a 0 are removed before the Upkeep phase ends.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Aylin on March 03, 2014, 01:59:01 PM
Another way to say it: during the Ready Stage, you can only reveal enchantments in between phases. If you are rolling for Burns, you are in the middle of the Upkeep phase and don't get a chance to reveal until after the phase is over. Any burns that roll a 0 are removed before the Upkeep phase ends.

Ah, that makes sense.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: applepi on March 03, 2014, 04:00:55 PM
It looks fun to play in a casual game, with lots of fire spells and lash.  Also, as lettucemode said, the imp will work well with it.  Looks fun!

Also, burns are great way to deal direct damage to the undead, so this could be a nice way to kill a shaggoth-zora that grew too large.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Shad0w on March 03, 2014, 05:24:15 PM
It has a place in the new fire build :-)
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: DeckBuilder on March 03, 2014, 05:58:06 PM
Oh, this is going to be agony, sitting through these previews instead of joining in.
Playtesters have to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement so sadly I can't say anything.
However, I can quote...

This card isn't very impressive in a vacuum, but it appears as though there will be other cards that only have an effect if there are burns/curses on the target, or increase in effect the more burns/curses there are. Adramelech's Touch will have great value when played with those cards.

It's niche, a pricey 2 SPs for a Warlock who you would think has better alternatives.
It's very cheap to reveal and just as cheap to Dispel. However, quoting the review...

Quote
By itself Adramelech’s Touch does nothing.

Who will waste a precious Dispel on this Curse that does nothing? When there are so many worse ones?
So there it is: 2 levels of curses on you and 1 burn that sometimes does no damage but it never goes out.
Nothing to worry about...

I'm shocked he opened with this spell to puzzle everyone. He's such a tease...
I read someone elsewhere mentioned foreplay and building up to a crescendo...
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: baronzaltor on March 03, 2014, 06:04:31 PM
Also, just a side note.. with the Classic version of Warlock, if you used Touch on a creature and burnt it down you can Curse Weave it back to put on something else.

It will become a staple of any book you make if you do this when using it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJMqGHofdec
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: applepi on March 03, 2014, 06:07:59 PM
Who will waste a precious Dispel on this Curse that does nothing? When there are so many worse ones?
So there it is: 2 levels of curses on you and 1 burn that sometimes does no damage but it never goes out.
Nothing to worry about...

I hope the warlady has an ability that lets her get melee + and/or piercing + with each level of curse and/or burns on her opponent.  I'm sure this card will work very well with the other new cards.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: DeckBuilder on March 03, 2014, 06:08:57 PM
NOOOOO!!!!
Baron, you're gonna start a music link thread! Again!
Do you know how many songs have "Touch" in their title?

I think it's more appropriate that Laddin started his shy foreplay with a coy Touch...
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: sIKE on March 03, 2014, 06:11:15 PM
Just for you Deck and from your side of the pond! Touch! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB6b5puSpLw)
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: Wildhorn on March 03, 2014, 07:40:39 PM
For some reason, when I think about Forged in Fire (Adramelech, Warlock, Warlord, flames, ashes, lash), this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-2yuGgp_U8) come to my mind...
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: DeckBuilder on March 03, 2014, 07:52:44 PM
Just for you Deck and from your side of the pond! Touch! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB6b5puSpLw)

Thank you for that memory lane trip, sIKE! I think you meant to link Sam Fox's "Touch me"? Good cheesy song.
I did not realise she was known across the pond... Obviously known by you for her musical talent...
You proto-feminist, you...

I'm surprised there isn't a well-known song with both "Touch" and "Fire" in its title
I guess you just get your fingers burnt...
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: isel on March 04, 2014, 03:28:26 AM
I don't think it's necessarily a bad card. While just stacking more burns is more likely to deal more damage in general, this card should be great against extinguish.

And you think it's expensive? It looks rather inexpensive to me.

i said itīs expensive for the level not for the mana cost , i believe there are better spells of level one than this.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: applepi on March 04, 2014, 05:40:53 AM
I think the level will actually help it by having synergy with other cards.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: applepi on March 05, 2014, 06:09:04 AM
I whipped up a deck with it
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Burn baby burn[/spellbookname]
[mage]Warlock[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1a06]6 x  Flameblast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a04]4 x  Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a05]1 x  Firestorm[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1w03]1 x  Wall of Fire[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c01]1 x  Adramelech, Lord of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c15]2 x  Firebrand Imp[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c16]2 x  Flaming Hellion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC11]1 x  Ravenous Ghoul[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWE02]2 x  Circle of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]2 x  Vampirism[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]1 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e14]1 x  Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x  Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e24]1 x  Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]2 x  Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e02]2 x  Block[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e22]2 x  Hellfire Trap[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q10]2 x  Fireshaper Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q14]2 x  Lash of Hellfire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q05]1 x  Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q08]1 x  Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i28]3 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]4 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]4 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i02]3 x  Battle Fury[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 109 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

I only have 109 spellbook points, so I can add Sersiryx, Imp Familiar and 4x adramelech's touch
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: vlad3theimpaler on March 05, 2014, 10:02:21 AM
Odd choice of a preview to lead with.  It's pretty underwhelming by itself, and while it's hinted that it will have synergy with future previews, that just makes me think that it would have been better to preview those cards first so that we can actually see why this would be a good card.
Title: Re: FIF: Adramelech's Touch Preview
Post by: krj on March 05, 2014, 11:05:54 AM
i  like it at this moment, and maybe will like more after other new cards :)