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Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 11:04:46 AM

Title: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 11:04:46 AM
I know similar topics have been discussed before, but I just need to ask the forum this question again.
When Mage wars was once release I has completely struck by its mechanics and game play. I volunteered for ambassador and started to teach the game to as many people I could. Quite soon expansions were released and the game was at BGGs hotlist.

Today I don’t see that spark any more.
It is not just that it was now ages since (in my mind) a proper expansion has been released. (Promises was made, and redrawn, but still no new release dates for new mages. Battle ground and Academy are far from as good as the base game, and the cards from the last sets have gone in circles.) It more the feeling I get around the whole game and AW.

Look at the forum. It is not nearly as many people or posts in here as it once was.
The most popular topics are "How would you change Mage Wars" & "Is it loosing popularity".
Spolier and news for the new academy card are nowhere to be found.
Mr Scott Morris has left the ship.
Cards like Dawnbreaker’s Chosen and the community card are long forgotten.
What I can read Octagon are missing a decent player pool.
No new videos from the amazing Arcane Duels guys.
The App has not got a single update since it was released.

These are just a few examples. Personally my interest has gone from thrilled to moderate about this game. Most of my gaming bodies will choose 10 games over this today and it has become harder and harder for me to get this to the table. Previously the Mage wars stuff was an instant buy from me, but now I start to think my collection is done.

What is your feeling? Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: SharkBait on May 05, 2016, 11:33:33 AM
Short answer: No.

Long answer:
Quote
Look at the forum. It is not nearly as many people or posts in here as it once was.
The most popular topics are "How would you change Mage Wars" & "Is it loosing popularity".

Most recent =/= most popular. A couple of forum members causing panic isn't a real reason to panic.

I've seen what's coming, more previews will be released soon (there may even be one in the upcoming Mage Cast....). It's going to be a good year for the game.

Quote
No new videos from the amazing Arcane Duels guys.
There's a tournament going on being run by AD that is taking up a lot of time  :D

Everything will be ok. The cake isn't a lie this time
 
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on May 05, 2016, 11:40:57 AM
I guess that is up to all of you. Everyday I watch these forums closely. What you're feeling now could become a vicious cycle. It could swell and continue feeding upon itself. I totally understand your feelings. The design process over the last couple years, for me has been challenging. As the person working on Mage Wars, I always felt I should do more. It's tough to find a balance when everyday you feel the pressure of expectation. You all deserve an absolutely amazing expansion, and every day that goes only heightens that pressure.

Now, I don't say this to guilt anyone or to say, "my life is so rough". I mention this because I hope you believe me when I say how much I want Mage Wars to succeed, and how much I try to work towards that every day. I'm actually quite excited for next week, as I'll finally be able to show you all some of the things I've been working on.

As for a few of the points brought up...

There are several spoilers out there for Priestess (and a few for Warlock). Arcane Duels previewed several cards. Father Geek has shown off several as well. Also our facebook page has previewed a few cards. I was able to write an article on the website here previewing one of the cards as well. I promise that you will see more. It's something I'm taking a bit personally. Mostly because it was one of the first things I suggested when I started working here. So, this will improve.

Scott becoming the president of Passport Games, had nothing to do with Mage Wars. That is a phenomenal opportunity and Scott is a personal friend, it would have been irresponsible for him to not chase that down.

Aurora, Dawnbreaker's Chosen is in the Priestess set. We're excited to have her printed.

I never forgot the community card. I'm horribly guilty about it, but I've never forgotten it.

Now, I'll get back to proofing. I hope you all have a fantastic day.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 11:49:52 AM
Just to clarify myself.
I don't want anything else then the best for Mage Wars. It could still climb up again to my favourite game of all time.
I just feel the spark is fading...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: sIKE on May 05, 2016, 12:03:36 PM
Not speaking for anyone but myself. You all know I have been a fan of the game since 2012 and have been active here on the forums and help slightly with the maintenance of the MW module on OCTGN. I cant say anything official as I am bound by an NDA, but I can tell you for facts the wheels are turning and you will see stuff start to get churned out here very soon, I won't say Fire hose level we're downing but there will be plenty to keep us all satisfied. I would mark the "lull" as a growing pains and learning experience but much like one of my favorite TV shows likes to say: Winter is coming!

I hope this really this helps and am quite sure that everyone will be thrilled for what they have been so patiently waiting for, you will not be disappointed.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: drmambo23 on May 05, 2016, 12:09:28 PM
This is hands down one of my favorite games! Im trying to spread the game locally with my group of friends but our schedules are hard to align. Im also trying to become an ambassador and work with other ambassadors near me to get more going with it. Its not dying.
 

Most recent =/= most popular. It's going to be a good year for the game.
Calm before the storm?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: iNano78 on May 05, 2016, 12:23:21 PM
I'll jump in.  MW is my favourite game of all time.  I've recorded 50+ live plays in the last 14 months or so.  I love Domination, and I'm really looking forward to what's around the corner.  Our group is growing (5 or so regulars, with 1-2 new players from the last few weeks).  I truly hope 2016 is the year that Mage Wars returns to the hotness charts.

Not speaking for anyone but myself. You all know I have been a fan of the game since 2012 and have been active here on the forums and help slightly with the maintenance of the MW module on OCTGN. I cant say anything official as I am bound by an NDA, but I can tell you for facts the wheels are turning and you will see stuff start to get churned out here very soon, I won't say Fire hose level we're downing but there will be plenty to keep us all satisfied. I would mark the "lull" as a growing pains and learning experience but much like one of my favorite TV shows likes to say: Winter is coming!

I hope this really this helps and am quite sure that everyone will be thrilled for what they have been so patiently waiting for, you will not be disappointed.

Frost damage?!?!  Don't be a tease.  Are we finally getting Frost as a damage type? 
(I mean, aside from seeing Frost -X modifiers on a bunch of creatures that doesn't actually do anything for the 4 years the game has existed)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: sIKE on May 05, 2016, 01:37:04 PM
Frost damage?!?!  Don't be a tease.  Are we finally getting Frost as a damage type?
No not saying that at all! Just that big changes were coming...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Crow on May 05, 2016, 01:47:58 PM
I don't understand these threads.

Why does the release schedule tie so tightly to game health in the minds of some?   Is it a CCG/LCG mentality?  Does Mage Wars draw comparison because it is a card game with a similar theme? 

 I don't see them as connected, I play games I've owned as-is for years and years.  Mage Wars is more of a board game than anything ("board" in the sense of traditional tabletop game).  Hell, I played an RPG last week that hasn't released a book in decades, and it was still awesome!

For me, I'll enjoy Mage Wars even if no new products are released.  New stuff is always great, but the absence of the new does not diminish the quality of the extant.  Games that rely on frequent releases to maintain a player base likely have problems with quality of repeat play. 

Note: I don't play online, so I can't speak as to how it relates with releases.
Title: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 05, 2016, 02:50:44 PM
Please try to see this from the perspective of regular players who aren't playtesters. The forums haven't been very active for quite a while, the number of players on OCTGN has been decreasing over time and now it's very very hard to find more than one or two people who will play Mage Wars on there on any given day, and sometimes not even that. And when you live in a huge metropolitan area and no one but you plays Arena, and the only people who play Academy are people who you taught how to play yourself, despite Mage Wars being present at a decently sized gaming convention in that area for several years in a row, it can be very hard to see how the game might not be suffering right now. After the disaster that was the ridiculously low turnout for Origins 2014, there has not been a Mage Wars tournament there ever since. And the global metagame on OCTGN has gotten very stale. Nowadays almost none of the strategies that I see people playing are surprising to me unless the surprise is due to a misplay or suboptimal spellbook construction. I also rarely see solo or rush decks anymore.

And it's still very hard to get people to play Arena. While it's not as difficult to introduce new players to Academy, the core set only metagame of Academy is unbalanced without a quickcast phase or cards like Second Chance, so most competitive gamers end up seeing it as a casual-only game and end up preferring other games. The spellbook builder hasn't been updated in a really long time, and there are other important parts of the website with the same problem, such as the list of mages still saying that the alt warlock and alt warlord are "coming soon". There has still been no more news about what's happening to Mage Wars in France, and it's been a year. The MWM podcast hasn't been updated since October last year.

Seriously, what on earth am I supposed to think? It seems fairly clear, based on the evidence that's available to me, that Mage Wars IS already fading out. I really want to be wrong about that, but what I want isn't what I see. If the playtesters and Arcane Wonders have access to enough evidence pointing the other way to change my mind--evidence that I don't have access to, I cannot verify that unless I become a playtester myself. I didn't have time for it this past semester. And even if I do end up becoming a playtester, not everyone is going to want to do that.

Regardless, I hope you can at least understand why it LOOKS like the game is fading out and that I'm not fear mongering. This is a legitimate concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Iudicium86 on May 05, 2016, 04:02:41 PM
I can get where some people might feel this way, as someone who's only been into MW since the start of this year and reading some of the issues raised here and immediately able to relate. But I'm keeping hope and optimism 2016 will be a great year for this game and community.

But one thing I will gripe about, is a lack of local level community. living in a decent sized city, I still can't seem to find other MW players even while being active in the local tabletop gaming groups and meets. Not that it's even a developer's fault (though there may be something to say to marketing once in a while), but just the player base mostly. Lazy, too stuck to MtG, "too long/complex", "Can't afford to get into another money sink card game" (like it's a CCG, not a fixed model). etc. I only have two reliable friends to play, and one is one I taught myself and in fact is out of town and only comes into town for games once in a while. As for even Academy, I haven't seen any copies brought to the gaming groups other than my own, and only one person was willing to try it with me and see.

But oh well. Still gotta do my part and keep trying to bring people into the fold.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: farkas1 on May 05, 2016, 05:05:30 PM
I don't know for sure if it's fading out.  I love this game and hope that it continues to expand and build upon this amazing thematic experience. 

Since it released I thought it would be an awesome game.  I held off for 3 years from trying it.  There are a few reasons behind that tho.  Number one I was a new gamer around 2012 and zero groups to experience a variety of games with.  I also am super busy working 3 jobs and raising two kiddos.  Secondly was the amount of complexity it seemed to have out of the gate with just the base set, and lastly was the supposed game length which scared me away for the longest time. 

In the past year and half my gaming groups have grown and met a variety of different gamers. One of my buddies had the game and we tried it out.  I was hooked by the first play.  I lost a horrible death... but had one of the best gaming experiences ever.  I have bought 2 core sets and almost every expansion (I plan on buying the rest and the new stuff later this month  ;)). It is my most played game of 2015 and don't Think it's going to change this year either.

by not releasing a new set of mages for Arena in the past couple of years, has hurt the overall excitement level in the community, and it appears others are noticing.
However,  the newness has not wore off on me.  I do hope the releases pick up and everyone buys them.  Academy is a great effort and I think it will help expand the popularity.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 05:12:36 PM
I don't understand these threads.

Why does the release schedule tie so tightly to game health in the minds of some?   Is it a CCG/LCG mentality? 

As I wrote in the OP, the release pace isn't my concern at all. It more the steem behind it. It's like the honeymoon is over, now the tough life to survive start and I don't see how the game will manage that at the moment...

I agree so much to what Sailor Vulcan just said: As of today, as a none-play-tester, I don't see any news or updates to calm me down on this.

What fears me is that another expansion might not be enough. Maybe it is the reverse that has to be done. A relaunch. Go back to basics and reduce the card pool to only consist of a manageable amount for new to semi new players. Maybe just new official rules to adjust something (play length, dice, spellpoints, mage abilities, etc). I don't know.

Again, Mage wars is the best game out there. More people must be given the chance to understan that...

Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: iNano78 on May 05, 2016, 05:26:31 PM
What fears me is that another expansion might not be enough. Maybe it is the reverse that has to be done. A relaunch. Go back to basics and reduce the card pool to only consist of a manageable amount for new to semi new players. Maybe just new official rules to adjust something (play length, dice, spellpoints, mage abilities, etc). I don't know.

So... Mage Wars Academy, then...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 05:26:53 PM
One more comment.
We in here are the biggest fan of Mage Wars. If some, or just a few, or even many of us in here think it start to fade, I guess the regular player out there will for sure think that too.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 05, 2016, 05:28:54 PM

So... Mage Wars Academy, then...

But that is a different game, not as fun, and what I think has not a potetial for a big audience like Arena.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 06, 2016, 12:53:22 AM
 :-X
what a depressive topic!
 :-X :-X :-X

i don't play often (job, music band, kids,etc.) but MW is my basis game and each game is 4-5 hours + 6-8 hours building. i like to create a new spellbook for each game, and it becomes harder to find new ideas after a year with no new mages (i bought FiF late).
i also have the problem that MW isn't dying in europa: it never really was born!

i'm looking forward to play P&S, but it didn't come in 2015, will it arrive in 2016? 2017?...
and after that, will we have to wait 2-3 years for the next 2-mages expension? (i buy academy and battleground to help me wait, but it's no exciting material to me)

but... what would be worse is a bad expension every 3 months!
so i hope AW isn't bankrouting in the next 30 years, and in this time we will have 5 or 6 beautifull expensions!
 :)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Biblofilter on May 06, 2016, 02:31:29 AM
I think were are doing fine in Copenhagen, Denmark  ;D

This Saturday were going to celebrate our 2 year uninterrupted monthly Mage Wars day!

After getting heavy price support from Arcane Wonders  ;) at our yearly tournament we got a few new very interested players.

Still it can be hard to find time to play with work, school/uni and now it looks like we getting a few days of summer.

I don´t really need more expansions to keep the game fresh - but then again I've been playing chess and bridge for years. Id like to play more Mage Wars than I do - but Im going for a 3 weeks Mage Wars vacation in July/august, so hopefully ill get some games in there. ( 5 games/day like in North Carolina will be hard to beat)





Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: wtcannonjr on May 06, 2016, 05:39:30 AM

I don´t really need more expansions to keep the game fresh - but then again I've been playing chess and bridge for years. Id like to play more Mage Wars than I do - but Im going for a 3 weeks Mage Wars vacation in July/august, so hopefully ill get some games in there. ( 5 games/day like in North Carolina will be hard to beat)

If you are anywhere near Sevens Springs, Pennsylvania in the July 23 - 31 time frame  stop by the World Boardgaming Championships for some Mage Wars play. I will be running a second year Mage Wars Arena tournament, plus multiplayer Battlegrounds,  and open play for all 9 days. http://www.boardgamers.org/#wbc (http://www.boardgamers.org/#wbc)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Drefan on May 06, 2016, 06:12:08 AM
I'd say no from my own experience with the game.
Sure the releases might feel too slow for some people but I started playing two years ago and I've had a lot to dig my teeth into.
There has yet to be a release in 2016, but we got Academy and Domination from last half of 2015. We also have Paladin vs Siren and other academy sets coming, hopefully, this year.

Maybe the number of people that play on Octagon actively has declined, or just the people you used to play with.

I still don't have any major issue when it comes to playing against other people via the client. Sometimes you'll be able to play a lot of games, and sometimes you're struggling to find someone to play with.
Every time there's an online tournament like Thunderdome or ADMW, I see a surge in activity. So I guess the best thing for Mage Wars Online play would be to have more tournaments, perhaps one for every quarter of the year.

When it comes to playing locally it's all about location I think. We have a group here in Umeå, Sweden that tries to get together at least once every week, or every other week.
The group used to be a bit bigger, but the people who still play are very active. And we feel that the more we play the game the more fun we have. We're still only playing Arena, we've not really touched Academy or Domination. We mainly used those two for the cards :P

So, there's still a lot to do with what we've been given and more fun decks to try out, but I feel that MW is one of those games that if you do not play it regularly, it becomes a bit boring. And this is mainly due to not remembering rules or getting out of touch with how to build new and funny books. I've noticed that the less active people in our group tend to always come with the same decks, or slightly modified decks because they lack the time and vision to create brand new decks. So they stick with what they know while the rest of us move on to another kind of meta :)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: DevilsVendetta on May 06, 2016, 07:45:47 AM
Another delay with the two Academy sets is going to be another issue. The fact that they can't get stuff out on a semi-consistent basis to allow for more replayability and changes in playstyle is a real problem. It's going to be another full year without anything being released after what seemed like a year or more between Forged in Fire and Domination/Academy. And the last major mages were released what, 3-4 years ago now...that's a problem.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on May 06, 2016, 09:24:43 AM
Paladin vs Siren is going to be this year. Right now it's looking like the official release will be in October sometime.

Academy Priestess is going to release at the end of June, with Warlock following the next month. Tony should have tighter dates sometime next week.

We've got a lot more spoilers coming and he and I have been talking about getting those rolled out. But right now, I have a preview for today, and I'll get to working on it so you can all have a spoiler for the weekend.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Ganpot on May 08, 2016, 11:48:22 PM
and after that, will we have to wait 2-3 years for the next 2-mages expension?
This is the question that really scares me.  Having a single 3 year gap between new Arena mages (which tend to offer more  comprehensive playstyle changes and opportunities than other expansions) is really bad, but it is recoverable.  Once the schedule picks up again, players will hopefully come flooding back.  But if this release schedule is already the new normal and players are expected to wait that long for the next set, then IMO the game is doomed (as in, a mere handful of people will be playing it by that point). 

So I don't want to (just) hear that PvS is finally releasing this year.  What I actually want to hear is that the next set is releasing 6-12 months after that (and isn't going to be delayed).  I won't pretend to know the reasons behind the slow recent schedule, and quite frankly I don't particularly care at this point (harsh but true).  Whatever the reason, FIX IT.  Short of nuclear apocalypse or Cthulhu rising from the sea, it should never be allowed to happen again.  A ton of people (including myself) originally became excited about this game at least partially because of the promise of expanding variety.  People on the forums had a lot of fun imagining new mage archetypes and cards.  Deckbuilding is the best part of the game for many people.  For the last couple years, all of these people have become frustrated and bored with the game. 

You can tell how serious I am about this topic because I actually prevented myself from making a really stupid pun in the preceding sentence.  And those are my absolute favorite types of puns!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Jedah on May 09, 2016, 07:35:07 AM
Laddinfance,

Thank you so much for alllllll the hours, the days and weekends playing magewars. I feel bad reading your post.  beeing somewhat impacient for new expansions. I can't imagion how much work it would be to create a new expansion.

All i can say is that you could definatly see these comments as one of the greatest compliments. People enjoy the game so much that that crave new content. They want to keep playing.

i for one am super hyped about the upcoming expansions! And even if there weren't going to be any expansions released, i have seen the future of my gaming closet in 20 years containing a old and almost used up version off magewars. Teaching my daughter the rules  :)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on May 09, 2016, 09:18:45 AM
Laddinfance,

Thank you so much for alllllll the hours, the days and weekends playing magewars. I feel bad reading your post.  beeing somewhat impacient for new expansions. I can't imagion how much work it would be to create a new expansion.

All i can say is that you could definatly see these comments as one of the greatest compliments. People enjoy the game so much that that crave new content. They want to keep playing.

i for one am super hyped about the upcoming expansions! And even if there weren't going to be any expansions released, i have seen the future of my gaming closet in 20 years containing a old and almost used up version off magewars. Teaching my daughter the rules  :)

Don't feel bad. The last thing I ever want is for my post to make people feel bad. Now at the same time I always strive to be as honest as possible.

I'm hoping this week as I start to spoil PVS that you guys will see what we've been working on, and as I get to show you what we have been doing, I'll start focusing on what we will do. It's a exciting time for Mage Wars. I know there is a lot on the line, so to speak. Right now I could say, "of course we'll get it done with no delays", but in the end what I say on that matter doesn't have an impact. Getting the next set out will.

So for now, I'm taking a moment to enjoy sharing PVS with all of you, but then It's back to work. I owe you all another set.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Erebus on May 26, 2016, 02:23:22 AM
I'm hoping to start spending a regular amount of time checking the forums and playing the game again. For me, this game is very much still alive, especially with PvS on its way. I expect you may see a few other students become more active during the summer.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Mystery on May 26, 2016, 03:19:51 PM
First I have to say that I also would like to see expansions more regulary. But there will be a bunch of cards coming. With LG, Priestess academy, Warlock Academy and PvS also do come quite many.

Also from Playtesting I can tell you that the larger the overall spell base gets the harder testing and balance gets. Also there are different things to consider also. And a big point is spellbook size and building and that to really identify if a strat/deck and cards are too weak or too good need a large sample size and to judge on a (competive ) level and balance in general you really need to build full spellbooks. Cause it really makes a difference on seing the influence on cards on the amount of enchantment removals, creatures and also equipment removal. Just 90 points book, or shortly built ones won't do it. Secondly you need to play against lots of other decks...
And you also have to check the cards in Domination

Now to some other points: Mainly talking my experience on OCTGN: Domination hardly people play and if I ask often comes: havent played, have no deck, dont know the rules. And it is a rather complex thing to exploit too. Also team games. I wouldnt cosider myself playing extremly much, but on octgn and offline without playtesting i have like 230 games. But I havent played so many possible decks yet and on every mage with the current card pool are still possibilities.
If I look at 90% of the decks they have a huge development potential yet, exploit that, playing a new deck every game is not using the full potential of the game. (I never play the same deck twice for a long time and even now probably change, but I play it again soon after). The decks play differently against other mages, other strats etc.

Try domination

Arcane duels made a lot of videos over the tournament, those are very valuable show a lot and in the latest time there are lots of new decks.

"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one" The german speeking part is growing a lot, the last Thunderdome G was a real boost for the community. There was a game every week for each player, double elemination and Schwenkgott did cast and record all those games. It also had decks posted after and written summary by the players and some strat insight. This is really huge for the community and keeps all focused and interessted. Of course for the short time it is time consuming, but you really get a large value out of it.

Generally from what I see of octgn players havent yet exploit the game at this state. Of course I myself currently also play less as i desperatly wait for Priestess/warlock to include those cards in my decks.

sailor sad no games on octgn surprise him, powlichs 4 quicksand/domination surprised me, and as I had extremly good results using fellela curse builds it also seems to surprise a lot. The thing is if you are not surprised you should be able to built a deck that can beat all assuming you play slightly better level.

Lastly someone sad there are no decks posted: I see so many more of the same decks posted with then a discussion. I posted all decks from Thunderdome G here (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16570.0) noone responed, its not that there isn't something available....

It is cool that AW gets something out soon, but I feel most of us havent exploit the full extent or even most of the game yet
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Tyrnan on May 26, 2016, 06:40:15 PM
Now to some other points: Mainly talking my experience on OCTGN: Domination hardly people play and if I ask often comes: havent played, have no deck, dont know the rules. And it is a rather complex thing to exploit too. Also team games. I wouldnt cosider myself playing extremly much, but on octgn and offline without playtesting i have like 230 games. But I havent played so many possible decks yet and on every mage with the current card pool are still possibilities.
If I look at 90% of the decks they have a huge development potential yet, exploit that, playing a new deck every game is not using the full potential of the game. (I never play the same deck twice for a long time and even now probably change, but I play it again soon after). The decks play differently against other mages, other strats etc.
Good to hear this from you Mystery. I always have the feeling that there are so many potential (competitive) decks that I didn't play yet and that I easily could keep playing with the current card pool for quite a while and still discover something new. As I don't get to play as much (since mid 2014 I played around 50 matches on and offline) I thought this is the reason. But reading that even a player like yourself still hasn't explored everything to explore underlines how extremely deep this game already is!
I personally do not have the impression that mage wars is fading out, especially not here in germany. But also this forums are still quite active, with every other day something new to discuss.
So thanks for sharing your thoughts making a big point in showing that mage wars is alive and kicking :)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Boocheck on May 27, 2016, 05:41:58 AM
"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one" The german speeking part is growing a lot, the last Thunderdome G was a real boost for the community. There was a game every week for each player, double elemination and Schwenkgott did cast and record all those games.

I need to say, that Europe is not a state, its a continent. Each state has its own specifics, game board traditions and culture and mostly because of language barier, there is a problem to convert people into mage wars. Mage wars cannot be considered as a fast card game similar to MtG, GoT etc. It takes much more learning time, preparation time and produce much more gaming time. I bet that French players have this problem, Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Polish, Czech, Slovak... If i rembember corectly, only Germany has its own language mutation of mage wars, right? 

I hope that during this or next year, there will be academy translation for Czech (and Slovak because our languages are similar) and after that, Mage Wars Arena.

I am from Czech and i can proudly say, that we have a scene. Yes, small one but if you compare total population of germany to ours, i think on % we are pretty even :)

I deeply respect Schwenn for his work and also you Mystery. I bet that just because of you two and similar people, Germany have such a great scene. I hope that in next 5 years, things will change greatly as more and more board games are seen as something cool instead of nerdish and this will produce more players in Europe.

PvS will kick ass! :)

Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Tyrnan on May 27, 2016, 06:49:24 AM
As Kaarin pointed out, there will also be a polish version planned for november this year! http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16843.0

Does anyone know of other localization efforts in other countries?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Kaarin on May 27, 2016, 08:16:51 AM
I know that there were Russian, Italian, French versions, but I think that both Italian and French didn't get past core set. I heard about Spanish version too.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 27, 2016, 09:29:45 AM
I know that there were Russian, Italian, French versions, but I think that both Italian and French didn't get past core set. I heard about Spanish version too.

in french we have core set, the 2 +core set and warlord vs forcemaster... but there are very good quality unofficial translations for the other sets!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: steack on May 27, 2016, 11:17:10 AM
Just the core set

no more

they are stopped the ditribution after 6 moth with no publicity ...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 27, 2016, 12:14:25 PM
Just the core set

no more

they are stopped the ditribution after 6 moth with no publicity ...

the two core spel tomes are on philibert... but you're right about FMvsWrlrd
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 27, 2016, 04:37:35 PM
I know that there were Russian, Italian, French versions, but I think that both Italian and French didn't get past core set. I heard about Spanish version too.

in french we have core set, the 2 +core set and warlord vs forcemaster... but there are very good quality unofficial translations for the other sets!

I'm pretty sure we would have heard something on the forums if FvW came out in French, because it would mean french mage wars was being distributed again.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on May 27, 2016, 11:35:31 PM
I suppose I'll get off the rocking chair and throw in my two cents to the OP's statement and a few other opinions I see on this thread:

For me, MW is one of my all time favorite games, but the "competitive" scene has become stale and predictable for me; by "predictable" I mean that a vast majority of the cards that AW has released will never see play because they are "sub-optimal" or "useless", and that takes a lot of the charm of competitive building decks away from me. Sure, I can play casually, yet for me is that there really isn't a scene in my neck of the woods - outside the few people I can tear away from MtG to sit down a play, and the two/three people who actually play MW.

Now, I have been playing this game since beta back at GenCon '11, and have seen this game go through multiple changes, but I can agree with a few other's sentiments that a more streamlined release schedule for more Arena-centered content would be nice (though, we all remember how...rushed FM v W felt). No fault of the playtesters, since they have to try out a lot of combinations to try and balance before release. Nor no fault of Arcane Wonders because they should be using this IP to make varied content so we have things like Domination and Academy.

All in all, for me at least, I am on a semi-permanent hiatus from the game till I can find that spark again. What will that spark be? I don't know, but it is missing.

Finally, when was the last time a newsletter was sent out? I mean a newsletter going into strategies and varies aspects of play.
Title: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 28, 2016, 06:05:23 AM
I suppose I'll get off the rocking chair and throw in my two cents to the OP's statement and a few other opinions I see on this thread:

For me, MW is one of my all time favorite games, but the "competitive" scene has become stale and predictable for me; by "predictable" I mean that a vast majority of the cards that AW has released will never see play because they are "sub-optimal" or "useless", and that takes a lot of the charm of competitive building decks away from me. Sure, I can play casually, yet for me is that there really isn't a scene in my neck of the woods - outside the few people I can tear away from MtG to sit down a play, and the two/three people who actually play MW.

Now, I have been playing this game since beta back at GenCon '11, and have seen this game go through multiple changes, but I can agree with a few other's sentiments that a more streamlined release schedule for more Arena-centered content would be nice (though, we all remember how...rushed FM v W felt). No fault of the playtesters, since they have to try out a lot of combinations to try and balance before release. Nor no fault of Arcane Wonders because they should be using this IP to make varied content so we have things like Domination and Academy.

All in all, for me at least, I am on a semi-permanent hiatus from the game till I can find that spark again. What will that spark be? I don't know, but it is missing.

Finally, when was the last time a newsletter was sent out? I mean a newsletter going into strategies and varies aspects of play.

It seems like most everyone here either has a decently sized playerbase or a practically nonexistent one. I wonder why that is? Maybe busy cities are less likely to have potential Arena players than more laidback ones? Have you tried introducing Academy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Puddnhead on May 28, 2016, 08:04:37 AM
I think I understand the "spark" idea.  I cannot share a ton, but for me Paladin vs Siren sparks a lot of enthusiasm which I hope turns into a full fledged bonfire of excitement when it hits the FLGS shelves.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 29, 2016, 02:31:52 AM
SvP exites me too.
My fear is that it only ignite the spark for those who once had it. In my mind the bigger picture is more important, how to make the game hot again. I would love to hear AW strategy there.

I was no fan when MtG introduced type 2 (that's why I quit playing), but I now realize a few amazing things with it like;
- New players are not as intimated starting playing
- Easier / less play testing.
- Phase out of wrongly designed cards.

I'm not saying MW should do this, but I think something else then just pushing out more cards is the way to go.
Maybe some kind of semi type 2 idea.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: bigfatchef on May 29, 2016, 04:53:11 AM
I see no need for a type2. A well planned release-schedule with transparent (!!!) status updates and new mages/cards not to often, but often enough should be fine.

The main point to keep that “spark“ on fire is setting keypersons on fire who themselves bring and keep other people playing. In other words MageWars is living from those (us) nerds here in this forum who spend a lot of lifetime thinking about strategies, spellbooks, synergies and also hoe to get bad cards like gate to hell rolling. This is the spark!
And to keep that hot ArcaneWonders should spend some energy reacting to keyplayers.
- The wishes for correct and updates rules, errata and supplement are big and easy to fulfill. Do that!!
- Bring out printable cardtextupdates to put in sleeves so that everybody can play up to date!
- Get the forum organized by starting sections for academy and domination. It's so messy in here :)
- Update the spellbookbuilder and the app so that everyone can think even more about the game. How great is it for MageWars if people around the world plan their books and read card details while sitting in a park?! There are new cards: they have to be in those tools instantly, so that new betas are coming up faster! It keeps the spark hot!

Think about MageWars without forum and YouTube and octgn. Jus sell it like every game in stores. It would have died already!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 29, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
what is type 2?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on May 29, 2016, 03:15:10 PM
what is type 2?

In Magic it's a format that only uses the 2 most recent blocks of cards. It became "Standard" and now Standard format includes the last three blocks of cards, but blocks are no longer 3 sets large. To play Standard, you only build your deck out of the cards from the legal blocks.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 29, 2016, 11:45:36 PM
what is type 2?

In Magic it's a format that only uses the 2 most recent blocks of cards. It became "Standard" and now Standard format includes the last three blocks of cards, but blocks are no longer 3 sets large. To play Standard, you only build your deck out of the cards from the legal blocks.
... i prefere to wait 5 years for a new set than see MW come to that...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: iNano78 on May 30, 2016, 06:19:34 AM
I don't see a reason for "type 2" in Mage Wars. It isn't a collectible game, so there isn't a need to pay $1500+ each for 4 copies of an overpowered card from a long out-of-print set's random pack in order to compete several years later. Besides, any poorly designed/balanced cards from early MW sets tend to be on the weak side, not overpowered, so while they may not get played in high-level competitions, at least they aren't breaking the game. MtG has plenty of duds on the weak end (probably 80% are unplayable) and they still need to ban cards on a regular basis. I prefer that MW chooses to errata overpowered cards (like Battle Fury, Temple of Light, Hand of B-S) and perhaps some underpowered cards (like Gate to Hell and Goblin Builder) and go from there. It's a lot better than nullifying an entire expansion set by rotating it out.

Besides, there aren't 3-4 major expansion sets per year, along with a new core set, so even if there were a desire for a "type 2" format, there wouldn't be a sufficiently large card pool. Part of the reason I left MtG was I couldn't keep up with the sets release and rotation schedule. Even if you played draft/limited, you were constantly learning about the new cards. Takes a ton of time and wheelbarrows full of money to keep up with "type 2" MtG. Rather, I like that you can build a decent MW spell book from the core set and one or 2 expansions, especially if you focus on a couple mages or schools. You don't "need" them all - although it's nice to have the variety and options available.

Personally, I liked the stories and achievements in the organized play kits. I thought it was fun that you could either earn points/prizes by winning or by playing thematically and unlocking achievements. Sadly, the OP kits and story ended over 1.5 years ago with no indication that they'll resume.

Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on May 30, 2016, 08:33:24 AM
Just to be clear, I was simply outlining what "Type 2" is. Mage Wars has no intention to go to a set rotation model. Right now we're trying to stay focused on getting into a good rhythm and keep producing great sets for everyone.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: farkas1 on May 30, 2016, 11:45:45 AM
AW is going to have 4 releases this year.  I think they are working the best they can to produce cards that are balanced and adding new content that will change the look and feel of this game.  Academy has introduced some interesting ideas and hopefully will be even more experimental going forward.   Also having two different designers on each line will hopefully expand the game faster with new content and ideas. 
As far as PvS I am super excited over the sneek peaks of the cards so far.  I do think if we don't have anything groundbreaking yet from academy this set will change many things in the direction of this game. 

This year should not be filled with doubt.  We should be filled with excitement and enthusiasm over what is in store for Mage Wars this year, I know I am.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: fas723 on May 30, 2016, 02:26:09 PM
Humm... Felt like you all misunderstood my intention with the type 2 idea.

I never wanted to say I would like MW go down that path. Furthermore, make MW a collectable card game is the worst thing that could happen.

No, my thinking was more feel based. A way (not saying how) to make the card pool more manageable both for new players and play testers / designers. As it is now it could be overwhelming and big step to take for a new player to buy in on everything that is out already.

My thoughts were more like releasing a core set 2,  as my type 2 thought, with all the "good" / played cards + released mages in it. Something AW don't have to develop, and something new players could by and almost get everything in (and base their future investment in MW at). This core set could also be updated based on future expansions, to keep up its "hotness".
Just one thought of mine.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: jhaelen on May 31, 2016, 02:08:43 AM
AW is going to have 4 releases this year.
You sure? Wanna take a bet?  ;D ;D

Regarding type 2:
This has nothing to do with a game being collectible or not. FFG started to cycle out older cards from their LCGs, too. It's simply a reaction to a card pool getting too large. Assuming Mage Wars will survive long enough to reach a card pool size in the thousands, you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Halewijn on May 31, 2016, 03:59:35 AM
you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

Even if they would ever say some cards would not be tournament legal anymore, I wouldn't listen to that. I paid good money for those cards and will always keep using whatever I want.

Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on May 31, 2016, 05:15:06 AM
you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

Even if they would ever say some cards would not be tournament legal anymore, I wouldn't listen to that. I paid good money for those cards and will always keep using whatever I want.
but if some cards are illegal, they are no more tested with the new cards and rulles... some can become too powerfull in combination with a new card, some old effect can contradict the new rulles, etc.

of course, with tousands cards it's hard to have a global view on the set, and that takes time... but for sure we'll have 4 releases in 2016-17-18!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Ganpot on May 31, 2016, 01:47:45 PM
Regarding type 2:
This has nothing to do with a game being collectible or not. FFG started to cycle out older cards from their LCGs, too. It's simply a reaction to a card pool getting too large. Assuming Mage Wars will survive long enough to reach a card pool size in the thousands, you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.
I actually don't think they will ever cycle out cards, even if the total card pool reaches an insane size.  Games like MtG mostly focus on a handful of different card pools (colors, in this case).  Mage Wars does have magic schools, but it focuses more on individual mages with their own specialty.  The innate abilities of each mage means that even though some mages share a school, they generally do not want to share most of the same card pool.  The Necromancer does not want to mainly use curses and demons, and neither Warlock generally wants to only use zombies instead of demons.  They can dabble in each other's areas but their playstyles and card pools are somewhat different. 

Every time that Arcane Wonders releases another expansion, the goal is primarily to create new playstyles (with new mages) rather than only expand existing card pools.  Sure, the core mages have benefited from new expansion cards.  However, even after receiving 2 expansions geared largely towards the dark school, if you took away the cards from the core set then the male Warlock would become almost completely unplayable. 
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Kelanen on June 01, 2016, 02:55:10 AM
Why does the release schedule tie so tightly to game health in the minds of some?   Is it a CCG/LCG mentality?  Does Mage Wars draw comparison because it is a card game with a similar theme? 

Because Mage Wars isn't a boardgame or an RPG - it's an LCG in all but name. Like any complex customisable game (wargame, CCG, or else) it's a lifestyle game, and it depends on new material to stay fresh, and interesting. MW Has had no new mages for 2 years, and very little new material for 3 or more - it's got staid and boring, and I haven't seen anything interesting or new in ages.

And no, Academy and Domination don't help  (actually, they've made it worse).

First I have to say that I also would like to see expansions more regulary. But there will be a bunch of cards coming. With LG, Priestess academy, Warlock Academy and PvS also do come quite many.

Agreed if AW actually make this year's release schedule it will help a lot (I won't have faith in that until I see it though), but even then 2016 will be the biggest release year to date, but still not enough. And the other years, have been what killed the game.

Also from Playtesting I can tell you that the larger the overall spell base gets the harder testing and balance gets. Also there are different things to consider also. And a big point is spellbook size and building and that to really identify if a strat/deck and cards are too weak or too good need a large sample size and to judge on a (competive ) level and balance in general you really need to build full spellbooks. Cause it really makes a difference on seing the influence on cards on the amount of enchantment removals, creatures and also equipment removal. Just 90 points book, or shortly built ones won't do it. Secondly you need to play against lots of other decks...

All agreed, but this is just normal playtesting business. I've playtested many games (including CCG's) for years, and this is what it takes. If AW doesn't have enough playtesters, then that's probably symptomatic of not having enough players in general. Certainly there are a lot less around here than 18 months ago...

Quote
"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one"

Europe doesn't have a scene, nor a language, a currency or a culture. Europe is in excess of 50 countries, even the EU has 28, so to talk about Europe being anything is not comparable to the US, etc, and is generally wrong.

Germany for example seems to be doing okay - not flourishing, but doing okay. The UK (which as the native English speaking population should be the easiest market) is dying on it's feet.

Academy has bombed here (we have a big MtG and Netrunner scene here as well as other games) and people wanting a quick/repeat play fix prefer those. Distribution issues to the UK have certainly hampered things - we got Domination more than 6 months after the US for example), but it's release schedule that's killed the game. MW is a fantastic game but after 4 years we have about 600 cards? It's competing with games putting out a thousand cards a year, with new releases every 3 months...

Last month's London tournament was cancelled for lack of attendance, the one before had lower turnout than the one before that. The UK nationals at our biggest convention next week was cancelled by the administrators for lack of take-up - We couldn't even manage the low turn-out of the year before.

And if we can't get more than 2 tables running at two venues across London and UK Games Expo, then you know we no longer have a playerbase...

MW is basically back to square one as a more-or-less new product, but without the new product hype. It might be turned around from here, but honestly I don't think there are the resources to do it. I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: jhaelen on June 01, 2016, 03:17:28 AM
The innate abilities of each mage means that even though some mages share a school, they generally do not want to share most of the same card pool.
That's only true up to a certain point. Unless a card is restricted so that only a particular mage can use it, players _will_ find ways for other mages to benefit more from cards that the designers intended to strengthen a particular mage. E.g. in Mage Wars, you'll often find that a Wizard can be a better choice than what superficially appears to be the 'natural' choice for a given spellbook.

The strongest decks are usually a result of using 'out-of-faction' cards in a clever way that the designer's didn't foresee.

Oh, and since someone mentioned it: of course none of this will matter to casual players!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on June 01, 2016, 04:55:42 AM
I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 01, 2016, 06:16:55 AM
I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!


There's a BIG difference between not being MTG and being so niche that most people can't have organized play in their countries. This is a real problem, and we still don't have any evidence that this problem will be fixed aside from the fact that Arcane Wonders and the playtesters say it will.

Origins game fair is about halfway through the year. If they can't get enough turnout there, I don't see how they're going to make up for it in the second half of the year.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Boocheck on June 01, 2016, 08:29:38 AM
I realized one thing.

People in my country will not came on this forum or write here or ask about games, because they will visit our sites instead. We have two great forums that people in our (my nation) community visit regulary. My MW FB page has nearly 100 followers. Language barrier is a biggest problem. Czech or Slovakia players will probably ask here about some rules but thanks to the great time gap between expansions, most questions was already answered OR they will ask me on our czech forums (self praising stinks :) )

This leads to a situation, where a great ammount of players is not visible here. I bet, some other groups can have it in a same manner. Not just in Europe.

Sailor: In most respectful way, i would like to ask, if there is some sort of idea from your side, how would you fix that problem. (sincere interest!).
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on June 01, 2016, 08:31:36 AM
I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!

There's a BIG difference between not being MTG and being so niche that most people can't have organized play in their countries. This is a real problem, and we still don't have any evidence that this problem will be fixed aside from the fact that Arcane Wonders and the playtesters say it will.

Origins game fair is about halfway through the year. If they can't get enough turnout there, I don't see how they're going to make up for it in the second half of the year.

I don't know how it is in us, germany or uk, but in geneva there's more and more people playing... they like games of 1-2 hour, with a little brain stimulation but not too complexe,15-30 minutes rulles, and a cooperative mode...
I'm happy they still existe niche games like MW!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: SharkBait on June 01, 2016, 08:52:39 AM
From a competitive standpoint, the scene is really developing over the last year. A big part of that is the fact that OCTGN tournaments have been more and more common allowing players with a small local player base to play against more people. From OCTGN alone, There have been 4 Thunderdomes, 1 Arcane Duels Tournament with plans for more, and the LEMW just started up and has seen quite a bit of activity already.

There are also plenty of offline competitive and non-competitive organized play going on. I know Grizz and iNano run regular Organized Play sessions in their area all the time.

None of these examples even cover the Major Conventions that happen with Mage Wars presence or tournaments. I don't think it's nearly as doom and gloom as a lot of people here seem to take as a given
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: iNano78 on June 01, 2016, 09:00:27 AM
Kelanen makes a lot of good points, but...

And no, Academy and Domination don't help  (actually, they've made it worse).

I have to take exception with this one.  I think "Academy and Domination don't help" is strictly psychological.  There are some who think it divides the community, but I don't have evidence of this. I personally don't like Academy as a game / play mode (and it competes with a lot of other games that are probably superior either mechanically or in size of community / availability).  But many of the cards from Academy are good in Arena, so if you treat it as a (reasonably inexpensive) expansion for Arena Mage Wars and completely ignore the Academy game itself, then it does add to the card pool and open up new options for existing Arena mages (most notably better Animal Kinship Beastmaster, more options for swarm players, a decent ranged weapon for Johktari Beastmaster, and a few decent cheap Arcane creatures for variety in Wizard play).  Similarly, I love Domination as a play mode (and it's far superior than Arena for multiplayer), but even if you don't, it includes some interesting cards and you can use the terrain tiles to spice up your Arena matches by building a 4x3 "Battleground" for Arena death-matches.

P.S.  Fantasy Flight Games owns a trademark on the term "living card game" aka "LCG", so by necessity, Mage Wars can't be advertised as such.  But it's a "customizable non-collectible card game with expansions added at somewhat regular intervals" or whatever the generic non-trademarked descriptor would be, just like other such games. 

"It only looks like an LCG, but due to international copyright laws, it's not."
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 01, 2016, 09:30:50 AM
I realized one thing.

People in my country will not came on this forum or write here or ask about games, because they will visit our sites instead. We have two great forums that people in our (my nation) community visit regulary. My MW FB page has nearly 100 followers. Language barrier is a biggest problem. Czech or Slovakia players will probably ask here about some rules but thanks to the great time gap between expansions, most questions was already answered OR they will ask me on our czech forums (self praising stinks :) )

This leads to a situation, where a great ammount of players is not visible here. I bet, some other groups can have it in a same manner. Not just in Europe.

Sailor: In most respectful way, i would like to ask, if there is some sort of idea from your side, how would you fix that problem. (sincere interest!).

Have more communication and interaction between the different mage wars forums. Organize events both online and offline that require working together with the other Mage Wars forum communities. Language is not an insurmountable barrier. We just need people who know more than one language to translate, and for people who don't have a translator to improvise.

For instance, if a german person meets a british person, the british person doesn't know german and the german person doesn't know english, then they probably can't rely on their native tongues to communicate. But let's say they both took spanish classes in high school/college. It doesn't matter that neither of them are hispanic, they still have a common language!
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Boocheck on June 01, 2016, 10:02:44 AM
Quote
Organize events both online and offline that require working together with the other Mage Wars forum communities

I think that this could be a problem here in europe. I cannot imagine that one day, i will sit into my car, travel 6 hours to Innsbruck to met a player or attend there for a tournament. Also, it suprised me how hard was to communicate in english there. My germany is not that advanced, my spanish sux and i will rather not mention my ability to order beer in french :) And dont try to bring Bibliofilters trip into this discussion :)

Most people are shy when using other languages. Most Board Gamers are super shy when comes to other people out of their comfort zone :)

Also i live in impression, that nearly all Germans are able to speak english :)
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: aridigas on June 01, 2016, 01:12:17 PM
Quote
Organize events both online and offline that require working together with the other Mage Wars forum communities

I think that this could be a problem here in europe. I cannot imagine that one day, i will sit into my car, travel 6 hours to Innsbruck to met a player or attend there for a tournament. Also, it suprised me how hard was to communicate in english there. My germany is not that advanced, my spanish sux and i will rather not mention my ability to order beer in french :) And dont try to bring Bibliofilters trip into this discussion :)

Most people are shy when using other languages. Most Board Gamers are super shy when comes to other people out of their comfort zone :)

Also i live in impression, that nearly all Germans are able to speak english :)

Uhm... Un big cerveza, si vou plait? Or something like this.

I usually only visit local tournaments as well, 2h, maybe 3h away by train. For a 2 day event I'll perhaps travel further, but only once in a while. Like once a year.
Visiting another country just for a game of mage wars is not the way for me. And that's where other forum communities are, at least for me in germany.

I will admit that speaking a language that's not german makes me a little uncomfortable. Sitting there, looking for a translation or a phrase that you don't know is annoying. You know what you want to say, but you can't. Considering myself quite eloquent in german, I often feel like a stuttering idiot because I have to use the simplest words I know.


Every german student has to take english classes in school, with mixed results. But some people don't even speak proper german, which seems to be way more important here. Those may be exceptions, though, I didn't ask everyone.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: iNano78 on June 01, 2016, 02:17:34 PM
Not sure if it's different in France, but in Canada, the French word for beer is bière (similar to the German/English word).  Cerveza/cerveja is Spanish/Portugese.

Other than the local crew, would anybody be willing to travel to Ottawa, Canada for a Mage Wars tournament?
*edit* Or perhaps a little closer to the US border... perhaps somewhere near Prescott, ON (across a bridge from Ogdensburg, NY)?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: aridigas on June 01, 2016, 02:36:34 PM
Yeah, I tried to merge as many languages as I could in that sentence.
Bière sounds about right.

Canada is a bit far from here...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: netzhuffle on June 01, 2016, 03:02:19 PM
"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one" The german speeking part is growing a lot

If you want hard numbers for this for the German speaking part (Germany, Austria, Switzerland):

2014, half a year after Mage Wars came out, we had our first official Mage Wars tournament with 6 participants.
2015 we had our first German Championship with 16 participants.
2016, with 1 month to go for the German Championship, we are already at over 30 registered participants and I keep getting asked every few days if there are still available spots for the tournament (they are!).
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Biblofilter on June 01, 2016, 03:02:43 PM
Not sure if it's different in France, but in Canada, the French word for beer is bière (similar to the German word).  Cerveza/cerveja is Spanish/Portugese.

Other than the local crew, would anybody be willing to travel to Ottawa, Canada for a Mage Wars tournament?
*edit* Or perhaps a little closer to the US border... perhaps somewhere near Prescott, ON (across a bridge from Ogdensburg, NY)?

Yes id travel to Canada.

Really wanted to go to Germany before Gen-Con -even tried to buy 4 core sets and 1+ of every expansion in german (even if i dont speak german) but the order wouldnt go through. Unfortunately i coudnt get more holliday leave so Germany is on hold to after Gen-con.

"I will admit that speaking a language that's not german makes me a little uncomfortable. Sitting there, looking for a translation or a phrase that you don't know is annoying. You know what you want to say, but you can't. Considering myself quite eloquent in german, I often feel like a stuttering idiot because I have to use the simplest words I know."   

I know this all to well  :-[

Still ive been an competive bridge/chess player before mage wars. Both games are very stale - complex and have a large community in almost every country. But i found it a very good way to meet local people. Ive played chess in the street of Caracas and Las Palmas. Bridge in France, Spain and England.

Who wouldn't go to France, Spain, Germany or Canada (or anywhere) to play a game you love. Meet new people and maybe even make new friends, even if you dont share a common language (other than mage wars/bridge/chess)

I still hope to attract a few foreigners to Copenhagen/Viking Cup in October its the same time as Essen and ill gladly order beer for you.

Mage Wars wont die unless we let it die. It just to good a game.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: SharkBait on June 01, 2016, 03:05:26 PM
Not sure if it's different in France, but in Canada, the French word for beer is bière (similar to the German/English word).  Cerveza/cerveja is Spanish/Portugese.

Other than the local crew, would anybody be willing to travel to Ottawa, Canada for a Mage Wars tournament?
*edit* Or perhaps a little closer to the US border... perhaps somewhere near Prescott, ON (across a bridge from Ogdensburg, NY)?

Depending on time/amount of heads up I'd love to go to Canada for a tournament.
Title: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 01, 2016, 06:57:38 PM
In the meantime, maybe we should make other language editions of Mage Wars available on OCTGN. That way we can more easily encourage members of other Mage Wars forums to play online.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: exid on June 02, 2016, 12:16:44 AM
"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one" The german speeking part is growing a lot

If you want hard numbers for this for the German speaking part (Germany, Austria, Switzerland):

2014, half a year after Mage Wars came out, we had our first official Mage Wars tournament with 6 participants.
2015 we had our first German Championship with 16 participants.
2016, with 1 month to go for the German Championship, we are already at over 30 registered participants and I keep getting asked every few days if there are still available spots for the tournament (they are!).

I see you're the swiss MW ambasador!
Reicht dein Einfluss die weiter, westliche französichsprachige Genf?
... And do you know why the shops here can't get AW's products in a normal time, for a normal price?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: jhaelen on June 02, 2016, 01:13:14 AM
2014, half a year after Mage Wars came out, we had our first official Mage Wars tournament with 6 participants.
2015 we had our first German Championship with 16 participants.
2016, with 1 month to go for the German Championship, we are already at over 30 registered participants and I keep getting asked every few days if there are still available spots for the tournament (they are!).
Well, these numbers clearly look encouraging!

I'm also from Germany, and I actually enjoy opportunities to chat in English. I think, below a certain age, everyone here can speak English, although often with a pretty bad pronounciation. I blame our TV: In contrast to e.g. Scandinavia, US/British TV shows gets dubbed, so you aren't exposed to English if you don't want to. In Scandinavia at best you get translated subtitles, so it helps to keep you 'in training'.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Drefan on June 02, 2016, 01:17:46 AM
In the meantime, maybe we should make other language editions of Mage Wars available on OCTGN. That way we can more easily encourage members of other Mage Wars forums to play online.

That could help, however, I'm not sure what language would be next.

I do however believe that the biggest reason people turn away from Mage Wars is that creating your own book might seem like a very intimidating task or a time consuming one.

The spellbook builder provided on the official site needs to be a lot better. Imagine a builder closer to the like of Octagon's deck builder but with the option to create, save and share decks by just logging on to the site.

You wouldn't need to download an unofficial software to get a great deck builder, and you would also be able to do it anywhere. All you would need is an internet connection :)

And once people really get into the game, the natural step would be to look at Octagon for more Mages to battle against.

I'd love to see Arcane Wonders team up with the guys behind Octagon's deck builder and co-create one for the site itself. Perhaps having extra help from the outside is needed in this case since released expansions are not showing up on the official deck builder!



Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Halewijn on June 02, 2016, 03:42:51 AM
Maybe we should make a short steplist that new players could follow whilst designing a good spellbook. Could make the task easier. It could also prevent players to have situations where they have nothing to counter the opponent and basically could give up too soon.

AKA something like this:

Step 1: select your mage (very short explanation about the mages)
Step 2: Choose a main strategy (some examples)
Step 3: Try to find the weakness to your strategy and try to add some answers to that weakness (+examples of course)
Step 4: Find a backup strategy for some opponents (closely related to step 3)
Step 5: Do not forget certain aspects in your spellbook, not all of them are necessary but a lot of them might be good to add. (eg. movement cards, flying counters, enchantment counters, attack spells, unavoidable attacks, ethereal, ...)
...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: bigfatchef on June 02, 2016, 04:16:32 AM
I am from Germany as well and believe nearly everybody speaks english. I use the chance to play with english cards to get english even more into daily use.
But I see many people who want a german edition to play for it is easyier and more intuitiv to understand. Words like conjuration, resilient and lumbering are not easy english standart. So I believe that in most countries without a native language mw-edition it will be tough to get a wide playerbase. Even worse if that country is big enough that everything else is happening in native language (for example france, spain,
 and italy love and live their language whilst in sweden or norway english is common in tv or printed).

I think adding french, Spanish and a depending where players live (czech, poland, ?) would help improve playstyles and beta in general. It would catch those “lonely nerds“. But it wouldn't bring new players.

For myself I am not the one to travel hours for a game or a competition. And even if beeing in this forum a lot and trying myself in thunderdomeG I would call myself more a casual than a competitive player. I try to get a szene running here that is now about 10 to 15 people more or less active. Maybe we will have a small local competition soon.
Only of these guys has ever heard of mw before. I tell people it's a game “like mtg but with a board and strategic movement. Also you plan cards instead of random picking“. What I want to say is, that mw is unknown (but everybody knows mtg) and it would be a lot easier to get people to play if more people would know about it.

About the time consuming spellboon building: Yes newbies dont't build a book. What would be great would be a well oehanized and simple collection of GOOD books. Not frugal and not hidden in a forum with variations on page 4. There should be a section on the odficial ArcaneWonders Site where books are sorted by mage and shortly described by how to play and how it feels. “this is adramelech rush. You want to through as much fire as possible in short time. Battleforge will help you with equipment and ring, hawkey and other cards will make your aggression even stronger. Be quick, because it will get tough for you if you don't win fast“. Something like that fit every book. So players read through it and feel like “oh yeah, that's how i want to play. Good to know that mechanic. Show me the cards o need!“
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Halewijn on June 02, 2016, 04:42:13 AM
What would be great would be a well oehanized and simple collection of GOOD books. Not frugal and not hidden in a forum with variations on page 4.

Building 2-3 books per mage and a description how to build spellbooks is something we could easily do as a group.  ;D It wouldn't even take time for  AW apart from uploading the final document.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Anubis on June 02, 2016, 05:11:54 AM
What would be great would be a well oehanized and simple collection of GOOD books. Not frugal and not hidden in a forum with variations on page 4.

Building 2-3 books per mage and a description how to build spellbooks is something we could easily do as a group.  ;D It wouldn't even take time for  AW apart from uploading the final document.

I totally agree that this is something wonderful that should be on AW website.

We could organise books by style of playing. Each one described generally, with one or two openings detailed.

Who's in?
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: wtcannonjr on June 02, 2016, 06:05:09 AM
What would be great would be a well oehanized and simple collection of GOOD books. Not frugal and not hidden in a forum with variations on page 4.

Building 2-3 books per mage and a description how to build spellbooks is something we could easily do as a group.  ;D It wouldn't even take time for  AW apart from uploading the final document.

I totally agree that this is something wonderful that should be on AW website.

We could organise books by style of playing. Each one described generally, with one or two openings detailed.

Who's in?

I am planning a seminar on Basic Spellbook Design for the World Boardgaming Championships at the end of July. If the group wants to contribute, then I could include ideas into my seminar materials and publish the results.

Perhaps we start up a new forum folder for this discussion?
Title: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 02, 2016, 06:42:13 AM
What would be great would be a well oehanized and simple collection of GOOD books. Not frugal and not hidden in a forum with variations on page 4.

Building 2-3 books per mage and a description how to build spellbooks is something we could easily do as a group.  ;D It wouldn't even take time for  AW apart from uploading the final document.

I totally agree that this is something wonderful that should be on AW website.

We could organise books by style of playing. Each one described generally, with one or two openings detailed.

Who's in?

I am planning a seminar on Basic Spellbook Design for the World Boardgaming Championships at the end of July. If the group wants to contribute, then I could include ideas into my seminar materials and publish the results.

Perhaps we start up a new forum folder for this discussion?

Yes, good idea.

It's very tricky building with core set x1 only. Without enchanter's wardstones you sometimes can't hold onto the enchantments you need long enough and you have to include a ton of extra copies, and without reinforce its really easy to destroy battle forge (although that's true of everyone since reinforce is a promo). I have a frugal fire wizard who puts forge in his corner zone and uses the gorgon archer, which I think should be viable but I haven't practiced with it in a while. The frugal priestess needs some testing, and the frugal beastmaster needs to be completely revamped. I already remade the frugal warlock. He couldn't depend on his battle forge and without the wardstones it was too easy to destroy his curses. So I made the frugal warlock more of a rush build and I will post it on the forums later.

Something I would really like to start working on are making spellbooks using only the core set and 1-2 expansions. I could probably make a lot more frugal spellbooks that way. So far using core set x1 only I've only been able to find one way to use each Mage except the priestess, which can either use a brogan centered strategy or a similar vampiress strategy. Vampiress is probably better since it uses fewer enchants, now that I think of it. Although brogan is still really good against forcemaster and anvil throne warlord.

I might also even try my hand at frugal domination.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: bigfatchef on June 02, 2016, 09:09:48 AM
As I said I think the posted books must not be core only. Maybe some of them should be. More important is that they play good and with style. Canine-swarm (including academy), face-melter, undoing wizard FM with grizzly-body, dwarf-tank... Those books. At best some proofed event-winners.
Besides I am not sure if I can help here with my books. I like them and have the feeling some are pretty solid, but maybe that relies on local meta or weaknesses I have not realized yet (for example haven't played them against all mages).
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: netzhuffle on June 02, 2016, 09:35:08 AM
In the meantime, maybe we should make other language editions of Mage Wars available on OCTGN. That way we can more easily encourage members of other Mage Wars forums to play online.

There is a German card pack for Mage Wars :)

But everything except the card images is still English.

I see you're the swiss MW ambasador!
Reicht dein Einfluss die weiter, westliche französichsprachige Genf?
... And do you know why the shops here can't get AW's products in a normal time, for a normal price?

My focus is the German speaking part of Europe, i.e. mostly Germany and the Zurich area. But if you’d like, feel free to fill out the Ambassador Application form on the AW website – would be great to have other Ambassadors in Switzerland! Also, feel free to enter the Mage Wars Switzerland facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/magewars.schweiz/) and spread the word about it—it would be great to connect players from Switzerland irregardless of the language.

Also, I’m planning on doing a Swiss Mage Wars championship—help from Geneva to make this a true Swiss championship (and not just a Zurich championship) would be very welcome. :) You can find my email address below in the signature.
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: gw on June 14, 2016, 01:12:57 PM
Introduction of Type 2 was actually the reason I quit MtG

what is type 2?

In Magic it's a format that only uses the 2 most recent blocks of cards. It became "Standard" and now Standard format includes the last three blocks of cards, but blocks are no longer 3 sets large. To play Standard, you only build your deck out of the cards from the legal blocks.
... i prefere to wait 5 years for a new set than see MW come to that...
Title: Re: Is Mage wars about to fade out?
Post by: Laddinfance on June 14, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
Introduction of Type 2 was actually the reason I quit MtG

what is type 2?

In Magic it's a format that only uses the 2 most recent blocks of cards. It became "Standard" and now Standard format includes the last three blocks of cards, but blocks are no longer 3 sets large. To play Standard, you only build your deck out of the cards from the legal blocks.
... i prefere to wait 5 years for a new set than see MW come to that...

Just to be clear, I was simply outlining what "Type 2" is. Mage Wars has no intention to go to a set rotation model. Right now we're trying to stay focused on getting into a good rhythm and keep producing great sets for everyone.

Just to reiterate, I was just trying to explain what "Type 2" was, not advocating for Mage Wars to adopt it. Just to be fair.