Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: bigfatchef on November 01, 2016, 05:59:01 pm

Title: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 01, 2016, 05:59:01 pm
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Seal Breaker[/spellbookname]
[mage]A Warlock Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1A06]1 x Flameblast[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1J17]1 x Pentagram[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J20]2 x Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWAWLC08]1 x Naraka Vampiress[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFC02]1 x Blood Demon[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC11]1 x Ravenous Ghoul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLC07]4 x Mhegedden, Sealed Demon[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C03]1 x Dark Pact Slayer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1E20]1 x Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]2 x Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01E02]1 x Arcane Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E05]1 x Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLE03]1 x Demonic Link[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E29]2 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRE04]1 x Gator Toughness[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]2 x Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E36]2 x Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01E13]1 x Panther Stealth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E28]1 x Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E01]2 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E14]2 x Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E31]2 x Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E23]2 x Jinx[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E08]1 x Death Link[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1Q09]1 x Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01Q04]1 x Leather Chausses[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q06]2 x Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01Q10]1 x Wychwood Ironvine[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1I20]1 x Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I28]2 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I12]2 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I24]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I07]2 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I06]2 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWPROMO6]1 x Clear Mind[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLI03]1 x Siphon Life[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

I wanted to share a book I am working on with you. After reading about mhegeden in another thread I thought it's the right time to post this.

The main idea is to spawn mheggeden for and sacrifice him the same round before you lose life at upkeep. Ravenous ghoul eats his bones to grow.

The fast opening is:
1) 19 Naraka (8 ), QC ench.Ring (2) - 9
2) 18 Ghoul (13), QC FD ench (1) - 4 ..... Naraka double move
3) 13 Mhegg.. (6), QC Altar (4) ..... go and sacrifice him

This opening is very unsecure. You have to hardcast mheggeden yourself and are completely naked. There is only 1 enchentment under Naraka and she is very easy to kill. But depending on how you read your oponent it is a possibility that puts heavy pressure on the board.

The very slow but full opening is:
1) 19 Naraka (8 ), QC Ring (2) - 9
2) 18 FD (1), FD (2) - 15 (... or leather)
3) 24 QC FD (1), Ghoul (13) -10
4) 19 Pentagram (14), harmonize (1+2) - 1
5) 10+2 deploy mheggeden (4) .... 6 mana to play with

The good thing is, that till round 3 it looks like a buddy build with ghoul. But it takes a while.

Healing is via demonic link, death link, belt and after narakas dead a bloodreaper.
The two bigger demons are backup.
I would only sacrifice mheggeden since 6 life are precious. But at least one of them can be used as backup as well.

cheetah is anti-slow
elusive very important for this tactic. Unavoidible as well. Both double for that reason.
ET, ring and Wardstone support those many enchantments.
Jinx to stop counterideas of enemy mage.

16 SBP are a lot for 4x mheggedon, but after the setup you want to get many dice really going through. So much piercing that enemy armor doesn't matter. Rust is for the case that setup fails for any reason and you or your buddies go punching as usual. Anyway I had to cut cards I really miss....

I only played this book twice with success and like the idea. What do you think?
Feedback heavily appreciated!
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 01, 2016, 06:16:57 pm
I'm intrigued although not convinced by it...

Neraka just because she's cheap? You wouldn't rather swap one of the big guys for a Necropian?

I've been toying with the idea also, but I'm less far along the path than you. Are you sure Warlock is the way to go, rather than Necromancer?
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 01, 2016, 06:28:57 pm
Naraka just because she is cheap, yes. The other demons aren't much better. One mana more to get armor is okay, but on the other hand this 1 could be missing.

Warlock has a better health constitution and can hit 4 dice standart if things go wrong.

I am completely not sure if this the right way anyway :)
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Halewijn on November 04, 2016, 06:43:54 am
Im not sold on Naraka in Arena. I'd pick most of the other demons over her, especially with the bloodreaper ability.
Blood demon, afflicted demon, drokkar, kharne... If you want to go cheap, Id really pick kharne or afflicted demon.

Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 10, 2016, 06:14:00 am
Im not sold on Naraka in Arena. I'd pick most of the other demons over her, especially with the bloodreaper ability.
Blood demon, afflicted demon, drokkar, kharne... If you want to go cheap, Id really pick kharne or afflicted demon.
I chose Naraka because I needed that 1 Mana difference to 9 for a different opening. But I agree she is too fragile. I'll replace her with Kharne I guess.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 10, 2016, 06:28:44 am
I had seriously hoped for more feedback on that book. I am not sure if this is going in the right direction our if I miss some big cons.

In my eyes this book can handle annoying conjurations through piercing, counters flyers, isn't weak against anti-swarm, has healingmechanics and has potential to deal damage.

I think the idea of fighting with some buddies and boosting that gang as needed with +4 dice +4 pierce throug pentagram+altar is interesting. Especially when this supports your ghoul.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ExcaliburTK on November 10, 2016, 06:45:23 am
Why not just run a cheap creature like darkfenne bat or wildfire imp? Unless you are planning on actually using mheggedan I think it in pointless to waste the spell book points when you could use a lvl 1 creature with a lower mana cost that actually has some use if you don't sacrifice it.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: iNano78 on November 10, 2016, 06:52:07 am
Why not just run a cheap creature like darkfenne bat or wildfire imp? Unless you are planning on actually using mheggedan I think it in pointless to waste the spell book points when you could use a lvl 1 creature with a lower mana cost that actually has some use if you don't sacrifice it.

Because a Bat is level 1.

[mwcard=MW1J20]Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]

Mheggedan is a cheap way to grant Melee +4 and Piercing +4. (Plus growth for the Ghoul).
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Halewijn on November 10, 2016, 07:01:37 am
Ill look into the book some more this evening. Why didnt you take the necromancer? He seems better suited for the job.

- you could gain 4 mana on graveyard when destroying mgheddon.
- you can summon mgheddon with animate dead even cheaper. You only spend 3 mana, or 2 with the ring, and gain 4 mana on the graveyard. Thats a net gain of 1 or 2 mana! Its also cheaper spellbookwise. You can combine the heavy hit and mana gain with summoning big skeletons.
- try to add sardonyx in here since you already use the altar and graveyard then. I know its a long shot but its cool to try.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 10, 2016, 07:31:14 am
Ill look into the book some more this evening. Why didnt you take the necromancer? He seems better suited for the job.

- you could gain 4 mana on graveyard when destroying mgheddon.
- you can summon mgheddon with animate dead even cheaper. You only spend 3 mana, or 2 with the ring, and gain 4 mana on the graveyard. Thats a net gain of 1 or 2 mana! Its also cheaper spellbookwise. You can combine the heavy hit and mana gain with summoning big skeletons.
- try to add sardonyx in here since you already use the altar and graveyard then. I know its a long shot but its cool to try.

I'm kind of preferring the Necro route, but I think Sardonyx is a bridge too far!
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ExcaliburTK on November 10, 2016, 01:02:56 pm
Yeah but are you gonna hit something every time you use the altar and is a one time +4 melee/pierce bonus worth the sbp?

Other than that I think it's a cool idea and would like to see it run.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: iNano78 on November 10, 2016, 01:38:36 pm
Imagine this...

Required setup from previous rounds:
- [mwcard=DNJ04] Graveyard[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=DNC11] Ravenous Ghoul[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=DNC05] Ichthellid[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=MW1J20] Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
- A creature that wants to benefit from Melee +4 and Piercing +4. Perhaps [mwcard=MW1C26] Necropian Vampiress[/mwcard] or some other "vampiric" creature? (since vampiric scales with damage dice)

First round of interest:
- Hard-cast Mheggedan (since he can't be summoned by either of a Necromancer's spawn points)
- Activate Ichthelid to attack Mheggedan, infecting him with a larva.
- Sacrifice Mheggedan;
--> give your creature of choice Melee +4 and Piercing +4;
--> add 4 mana to your Graveyard.
- Attack an enemy creature (mage?) with your beefed-up creature of choice.

Second round of interest:
- [mwcard=DNI01] Animate Dead[/mwcard] on Mheggedan.
- Activate Ichthelid from last round to attack Mheggedan, infecting him with a larva.
- Sacrifice Mheggedan;
--> give your creature Melee +4 and Piercing +4;
--> add 4 mana to your Graveyard.
- Activate Ravenous Ghoul to obliterate Mheggedan and gain a Growth marker.
- Attack an enemy creature (mage?) with your beefed-up creature of choice.

Third round of interest:
- repeat "first round of interest" with second copy of Mheggedan...

Over time, you grow a very powerful Ghoul, an army of Ichthellids (to a maximum of 4), and have been giving a Vampiric creature Melee +4 and Piercing +4 each round. Oh, and you have 5 mana on your Graveyard each round to summon undead as you please.

Probably better to just go with 4 copies of Mheggedan and no Animate Dead. Costs a little more in spell book points and mana, but then the Ghoul can gain a Growth marker every round instead of every other round.

*edit* Won't work with Animate Dead since Ichthellid needs a living target. Just hard-cast Mheggedan each round for 4 rounds, get 3 free Ichthellids, +16 mana on your Graveyard, 4 Growth markers on your Ghoul, and 4x Melee +4 / Piercing +4 and that's probably good enough.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 10, 2016, 03:44:44 pm
switching to necro actually seems a good idea. I was focused on demons since mheggedden is one.

The good thing really is, that the sacrifical buff is not restricted and will work on skeletons.
The even better thing is that pentagram is pretty slow and fragile. That's why I tried with harmonize. Graveyard is supporting the whole plan definately better.

Throwing in Sardonyx seems a bit too much :) ... but maybe he'll get a try

Mixing this setup with the ichthellid-machinery is hardcore   8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Beldin on November 17, 2016, 10:22:53 am
Imagine this...

Required setup from previous rounds:
- [mwcard=DNJ04] Graveyard[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=DNC11] Ravenous Ghoul[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=DNC05] Ichthellid[/mwcard]
- [mwcard=MW1J20] Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
- A creature that wants to benefit from Melee +4 and Piercing +4. Perhaps [mwcard=MW1C26] Necropian Vampiress[/mwcard] or some other "vampiric" creature? (since vampiric scales with damage dice)

First round of interest:
- Hard-cast Mheggedan (since he can't be summoned by either of a Necromancer's spawn points)
- Activate Ichthelid to attack Mheggedan, infecting him with a larva.
- Sacrifice Mheggedan;
--> give your creature of choice Melee +4 and Piercing +4;
--> add 4 mana to your Graveyard.
- Attack an enemy creature (mage?) with your beefed-up creature of choice.

Second round of interest:
- [mwcard=DNI01] Animate Dead[/mwcard] on Mheggedan.
- Activate Ichthelid from last round to attack Mheggedan, infecting him with a larva.
- Sacrifice Mheggedan;
--> give your creature Melee +4 and Piercing +4;
--> add 4 mana to your Graveyard.
- Activate Ravenous Ghoul to obliterate Mheggedan and gain a Growth marker.
- Attack an enemy creature (mage?) with your beefed-up creature of choice.

Third round of interest:
- repeat "first round of interest" with second copy of Mheggedan...

Over time, you grow a very powerful Ghoul, an army of Ichthellids (to a maximum of 4), and have been giving a Vampiric creature Melee +4 and Piercing +4 each round. Oh, and you have 5 mana on your Graveyard each round to summon undead as you please.

Probably better to just go with 4 copies of Mheggedan and no Animate Dead. Costs a little more in spell book points and mana, but then the Ghoul can gain a Growth marker every round instead of every other round.

*edit* Won't work with Animate Dead since Ichthellid needs a living target. Just hard-cast Mheggedan each round for 4 rounds, get 3 free Ichthellids, +16 mana on your Graveyard, 4 Growth markers on your Ghoul, and 4x Melee +4 / Piercing +4 and that's probably good enough.

Ichthellids are too fragile for Arena Play, I like them personally, however a clock with many cogs only requires a single cog to fail to fall apart.

Kelanen absolutely butchered my last attempt at going down that route.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 17, 2016, 11:46:53 am
Kelanen absolutely butchered my last attempt at going down that route.

*grins* It's the only language they understand!
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 17, 2016, 01:56:03 pm
I've got a Sardonyx/Ichthellid/Altar/Graveyard/Meditation Necro book that I haven't yet updated for Mhegg. It's actually not a bad book. It's not tournament viable because it has some horrible matchups, but it's not just a toy build.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 17, 2016, 02:05:21 pm
I've got a Sardonyx/Ichthellid/Altar/Graveyard/Meditation Necro book that I haven't yet updated for Mhegg. It's actually not a bad book. It's not tournament viable because it has some horrible matchups, but it's not just a toy build.

I'm guessing it hates Necromancers for a start... probably mana denial too?
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 17, 2016, 02:44:24 pm
Yeah, the Necro matchup is not good. The Ichthalids are useless and I lose a battle of attrition without them. I suspect I could hide this weakness by adjusting the rest of the book, but I don't really know what I'd want to do. Zombie Frenzy isn't a great Graveyard strategy, and Skeletons lose to Zombies.

Creatureless Wizard is another bad one, though I'm seeing a lot less of that after the recent changes to Tower.

Brute Spam might be the best plan B, so far.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 17, 2016, 02:48:06 pm
Sardonyx is the real deal, if you can hit with him. Casting Charge on the Dragon and feeding it an Ichthalid from the Altar will end the game very quickly.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 17, 2016, 07:37:32 pm
Sardonyx is the real deal, if you can hit with him. Casting Charge on the Dragon and feeding it an Ichthalid from the Altar will end the game very quickly.

I'm unconvinced on Sardonyx to be honest. Not that he can't hit hard when you have him, but just that you could hit as hard with something half the cost...

Brute spam is probably the right answer, and if it's not the optimal one, it will be something close to it. There's quite a few potential answers to Brutes now, but a lot of books don't have them at least yet.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 17, 2016, 08:39:16 pm
The reason the book runs Sardonyx is its Unstopable and Nonliving traits. Not a lot works to keep it out. It's especially satisfying against Druid, who also has to deal with Deathlock. Just don't feed your Ichthellids to Kralathor.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 17, 2016, 10:48:00 pm
Although... just thinking out loud here, Sardonyx could maybe be replaced with Ballad of Courage. Not sure what I'd want the base creature to be.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 18, 2016, 03:58:13 am
I switched the idea to graveyard ichthellid necro and rearranged the rest if the book arround.
My Ichthellids got a hard time against a pirate siren with lots of vent-traps and swell-push-thrpugj-wall-attacks. Soaening them and some skeleton minions and deathfang as base and a ghoul to grow took too long. The Mheggeddens never came on board until we stopped playing. (Both books did't work as imteded).
So to get that double-trouble-mechanic going am think I'll have to go double spawnpoint graveyard/libro ... If that is overkill it will be either ichthellid OR mheggedden.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 26, 2016, 09:24:40 pm
Although... just thinking out loud here, Sardonyx could maybe be replaced with Ballad of Courage. Not sure what I'd want the base creature to be.

Do you always almost always play Deathlock, or just occasionally (eg: Druid)?

If it's only occasional then you could could have a Necropian Vampiress with Ballad of Courage for less than Sardonyx. A Bridge Troll?
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 26, 2016, 10:44:18 pm
Ideally it would be Dark & non-living so Graveyard summons it. Mort, maybe.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 27, 2016, 06:10:00 am
Ideally it would be Dark & non-living so Graveyard summons it. Mort, maybe.

At which point it can't have Ballad of Courage - it's Psychic...

Barring a Grey Wraith, Ballad & Graveyard are mutually exclusive...
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: ringkichard on November 27, 2016, 09:51:53 am
Hmm. Yes. Maybe just Adremelech then.
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: Kelanen on November 27, 2016, 01:15:02 pm
...but not from the Graveyard of course!

Adramelech is great (one of my best tournament books uses him), but putting him with all teh infrastructure of this is expensive...
Title: Re: Mheggeddens other use
Post by: bigfatchef on November 28, 2016, 02:42:14 am
A buffed and/or buddy Adramelech is a sweet build, but a different Strategie.
With my op in mind I planned level 2 or 3 creatures as base since it more important to get the big addon of +4 dice and +4 piercing through to the enemy mage. With several possibilities of positioned creatures chances are good that multiple guards, defenses or even forcefield are already used when the punch is coming.
A growing ghoulsm simply was there to add efficiency into sacrificing so many sbp.

With ichthellidmaxhine we already left that setup quite a bit.