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Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Werekingdom on March 15, 2017, 11:43:41 PM

Title: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Werekingdom on March 15, 2017, 11:43:41 PM
Best opening for: Paladin
(I'll try to  keep this this forum updated from your feedback)

I tend to see one of a few things with Paladin. First the Paladin tends to melee his Challenged creature or mage, then cast lumeric blast. Secondly Battle Forge is almost a must with any deck style. Cassiel is also almost necessary for Paladin to help out with support and action generation.  The common thread is that the Paladin uses melee bonuses, bear strength, wolf fury, etc. The usually channeling is 10 to 11 mana per turn. The Valor tends to come into effect it the early-mid to mid game.

Reference for the Aura's
COST: 3 Valor (Retribution Aura OR Martyrís Aura)
-Retribution Aura: When an enemy creature casts an enchantment or incantation targeting a friendly creature in the Paladinís Zone, that enemy receives 1 direct light damage, regardless of range or LOS.
-Martyrís Aura: When a friendly creature in the Paladinís zone receives damage from an enemy controlled attack or effect, you may transfer up to 2 of that damage to the Paladin instead.

COST: 6 Valor (Resolute Aura OR Vengeful Aura)
-Resolute Aura: Friendly creatures in the Paladinís zone gain the Tough -2 trait. Other friendly creatures in the Paladinís zone gain Armor +2.
-Vengeful Aura: Friendly creatures in the Paladinís zone gain Melee +1, and also gain Piercing +2 on their melee attacks.

COST: 3 Valor (Cleansing Aura OR Solar Aura)
-Cleansing Aura: As a quick healing spell action, the Paladin may pay 1 Valor: heal target friendly creature in his zone 2 damage, and he may also remove a poison condition marker from them by paying its removal cost.
-Solar Aura: When a friendly creature in the Paladinís zone makes a light attack, he may pay 1 Valor. If he does, the attack adds +2 to its effect roll. If it deals damage, the defender also receives 1 direct light damage.

If you want to add a opening then feel free, please show the first 2 to 3 turns and a list of Pro's and Con's. Thanks


The Banner by Reddicediaries
T1 (19): Meditating Monk -4, Mana Crystal -5, (I like the crystal in zone B1).
T2 (20): Battle Forge -8, Crusade Banner -7, (I like the Banner in zone A1 and Battle Forge in zone B2/B3).
Pros:
   -Not revealing much on T1
   -Flexible: 20 mana on T2 to deal with changes in plans.
   -No really bad matchups
   -Easy Valor: Gain Valor if enemy attacks Battle Forge or Banner. (The enemy mage is usually desperate to kill your banner, so you can gain Valor whenever he atks it instead of you. I tend to tanglevine the challenge enemy mage).
   -Mana Heavy (everyone loves mana).
Cons:
   -Not very aggressive (Staying in starting zone on T1, keeps you away from early Valor).
   -Spending 15 mana on T2. Making you vulnerable for T3  and T4.


Lightening Knight by Reddicediaries
T1 (19): Blue knight -15, Akiro's Favor -3
T2 (10): Signet of the Dawnbreaker -3, Braceyourself -2, (Double move Blue Knight).
T3 (14): Lesser teleport -2, (teleport Blue Knight then smash anything in your way).
Pros:
   -Very Aggressive
   -Forces other mage to respond (Blue Knight has a +7 Stun at full power).
   -Usually Paladin can equip himself up as enemy focuses on incoming threats.
Cons:
   -Telegraphing moves a bit (Anyone can see this a mile away).
   -Can run out of steam (You only have 9 channeling and the quick cast).
   -Blue Knight requires your book to be built around him.

Swarm Cleric Temple support from the rear. by Werekingdom (Melee with mage and get small creatures each turn, using Vengeful Aura to support your creatures).
T1 (19): Cleric -5, Battle Forge -8, (Battle Forge in zone B1).
T2 (15): Enchantment Ring from BF -1, Temple -10, Cleric prays to temple, Bear Strength -4,
T3 (09): Cheap Cleric from temple -3, Signet of the Dawnbreaker -2, Mana Vamperism -4, Attack with mage (you should gain 2 mana per atk and your opponent should loose 1 mana).

Pro:
   -Duel Spawnpoint: The Battle Forge and Temple give 2 free actions per turn.
   -Gain mana as you attack. (More mana for BF and Temple).
   -Swarm with many good creatures. (Access to many swarm bonuses).
   -Challenge your opponent then tanglevine him. (giving you valor if he attacks the tanglevine, and mana if you atk him).
Con:
   -Predictably: The Temple is a high cost and action styled deck.
   -Weak against super creatures like Leviathan, Kraken, etc.
   -No early Armor.
   -No early Cassiel.


Heavenly Temple: by Reddicediaries
T1 (19): Meditating Monk -4, Mana Crystal -5,
T2 (20): Cassiel -9, Hand of Bim-Shalla -5, Med +1,
T3 (17): Temple -10, Ehren -5, Med +1, Pray +1,
Pros:
   -Duel Spawnpoint: Cassiel and Temple.
   -Late game strength (High mana)
   -Gets more creatures out (Swarm)
   -First turns don't reveal to much
   -Early Cassiel.
Cons
   -Not Aggressive (staying in starting zone for 3 turns).
   -Passive Play can get wrecked by a good offense. (An Aggro Warlock could easily burn this this deck).
   -Heavy mana cost
   -No early attack power. (Ehren, is cheap but useless when he is not healed).


Quick Death: by Beldin
T1: (19) Run, Crusade Banner -7, in B3.
T2: (21) Crusade Banner>2 Knight of the Red Helm -14, Bear Strength -2, Bear Strength -5,
T3: (09) Bear Strength faceup -3, Atk, QC something.
T4: (9) Overextend -4, Overextend -4,
Pros:
   -Fast: Agro mage
   -Quick Multi Creatures
   -Great at attacking the strongest enemy
Cons
   -Can't last, burnout is inevitable.
   -No stunning/dazeing attacks
   -Mage has no armor or enchantment until T3 or T4.
   -Weak channeling
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: iNano78 on March 16, 2017, 09:22:13 AM
I don't know about "best," but how about:

Opponent has initiative.  Plan Crusade Banner and Battle Forge.

Case 1: Opponent stays in their corner or otherwise seems to be building up -> Go super-aggressive!
T1 (19): Double-move to NC;  QC Crusade Banner in FC (-7).
T2 (21+2): Deploy Crusader Griffin (-13) + Cassiel (-9); move to FC and Guard, or into opponent's zone to hinder them if you want to ensure your Paladin can melee attack next round.
T3 (9+1): QC FD Enchantment on self (e.g. Brace Yourself) or friendly creature; Attack with Griffin (and Paladin, if desired).

Case 2: Opponent moves out of opening zone and/or does something that suggests early aggression -> Let them come to you!
T1 (19): Move + Battle Forge (-8) in new current zone; Crusade Banner (-7) in starting zone.
T2 (13+1+2): Deploy useful equipment on Paladin; don't deploy from Banner yet. QC FD Enchantments on self and move into position (depends on what opponent does). Consider a Mana Crystal if it looks like you have time to continue to build up.
T3 (??+1+4): Continue deploying equipment on Paladin and Enchanting self, making use of every action while not spending much mana.
T4 (??+1+6): ???
Basically try to get net positive mana out of the Banner while using actions for FD Enchantments and/or mana generation; eventually pop the Banner for 2x Crusader Griffins and/or Light of Dawns, or whatever seems appropriate. You should profit in terms of actions and/or mana... or not. I really suck at profiting from the Banner (e.g. could have just hard-casted the creatures in the first place).

Needless to say, I prefer "Case 1," even if the opponent is playing aggressively.
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Reddicediaries on March 16, 2017, 09:42:29 AM
I don't know about "best," but how about:

Opponent has initiative.  Plan Crusade Banner and Battle Forge.

Case 1: Opponent stays in their corner or otherwise seems to be building up -> Go super-aggressive!
T1 (19): Double-move to NC;  QC Crusade Banner in FC (-7).
T2 (21+2): Deploy Crusader Griffin (-13) + Cassiel (-9); move to FC and Guard, or into opponent's zone to hinder them if you want to ensure your Paladin can melee attack next round.
T3 (9+1): QC FD Enchantment on self (e.g. Brace Yourself) or friendly creature; Attack with Griffin (and Paladin, if desired).

Case 2: Opponent moves out of opening zone and/or does something that suggests early aggression -> Let them come to you!
T1 (19): Move + Battle Forge (-8) in new current zone; Crusade Banner (-7) in starting zone.
T2 (13+1+2): Deploy useful equipment on Paladin; don't deploy from Banner yet. QC FD Enchantments on self and move into position (depends on what opponent does). Consider a Mana Crystal if it looks like you have time to continue to build up.
T3 (??+1+4): Continue deploying equipment on Paladin and Enchanting self, making use of every action while not spending much mana.
T4 (??+1+6): ???
Basically try to get net positive mana out of the Banner while using actions for FD Enchantments and/or mana generation; eventually pop the Banner for 2x Crusader Griffins and/or Light of Dawns, or whatever seems appropriate. You should profit in terms of actions and/or mana... or not. I really suck at profiting from the Banner (e.g. could have just hard-casted the creatures in the first place).

Needless to say, I prefer "Case 1," even if the opponent is playing aggressively.
Great suggestions!
I think banner is an action equlazing card and you need to know the right time to pop it. Blue knight is the opposite, he removes enemy actions so they can not hurt you.
Would you say Banner Forge is too mana intensive for a first round play?
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: iNano78 on March 16, 2017, 10:43:24 AM
Great suggestions!
I think banner is an action equlazing card and you need to know the right time to pop it. Blue knight is the opposite, he removes enemy actions so they can not hurt you.
Would you say Banner Forge is too mana intensive for a first round play?

Yes. That's why I'm terrible with it. Banner + Forge leaves you with few options over the next 2-3 rounds, including few pairs of creatures you could deploy if pressured... which is a terrible spot to find yourself in. This applies to your T2 Banner + Forge after a Crystal + Monk, too (Yes, you're effectively channeling 11 going forward, but you still don't have enough mana to pop the Banner for several rounds and have relatively few plays available while you wait for your mana to recover).

I've tried to get net positive mana out of the Banner a couple times, and each time leaves me wishing I'd forgone the Banner entirely and just hard-cast 2 creatures earlier and gotten them into the action sooner. So yes, I think the best use of the Banner is to trade 5 mana + 1x QC action for 2x FC actions, and if you didn't use your FC actions efficiently up until this point, then all you've really done is waste 5 mana. That's why the only use of Banner that I like so far is T1 after a double-move, then immediately deploying 2 creatures costing up to 23 mana  from it in an aggressive position (e.g. Case 1 above). Although maybe there's a case where you let the Banner collect mana for 1 extra turn so you can deploy 2x Griffins and maybe have some armor on your mage prior to the alpha-strike on T4.

P.S. A concern of deploying Cassiel and Griffin on T2 at FC is that Cassiel is completely unprotected and within striking distance of the opposing Mage for an entire round before you'll have enough mana to put your choice of Redirect / Glancing Blow / Brace Yourself / Divine Reversal / Gator Toughness (etc) on her. So maybe a T1 monk + Crystal prior to a T2 double-move + Banner is better if only to give you enough mana to either put an FD Enchantment on Cassiel, or to go straight to 2x Griffins!

T1 (19): Monk (-4) + Crystal (-5)
T2 (21*): Double-move to NC;  QC Crusade Banner in FC (-7).
T3 (25*+2): Slightly defensive option: Deploy  Cassiel (-9) + Crusader Griffin (-13) and put a FD Enchantment on Cassiel (-2) and self (-2) while moving into FC, or...
T3 (25*+2): Aggro all-in option: Deploy 2x Crusader Griffin (-26) and move to FC + Guard.
T4 (12*): Equip something and/or reveal enchantments and ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!
* - Assuming Monk prays at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Reddicediaries on March 16, 2017, 11:04:58 AM
Most Paladin openings seem mana and/or action starved. In fact siren seems like that as well.
Even the cheaper ones still require a lot of mana spending on Turns 2-3 and don't give you much defensive or immediate offensive options.
Banner is weird. You can cast it as a "come to me and destroy it or I will get crazy value later in the game," but most pallies that don't use temple want to win in the 6-12 round range.
I also noticed that with pally unless you go Temple, you will want to go all out aggressive bc if you don't you will just generally get overrun in the late game or super defensive bc you get rushed. Not much middle ground.
It's hard to know when to cast the creatures with banner vs hardcast especially.
If we go through his creature selection
Red helm: really good overall creature, but not especially vs flyers as you can potentially never get the +2 melee.
White Cloak Knight: Underated. Pretty good stats and his special ability is amazing. Put asyra's touch on him and you'll be healing anyway. Won't die anytime soon.
Cassiel: Really good, lets the pally spend actions attacking or whatever he needs to do. Run her in almost every pally, but it depends on if you will have the action and if you have enough spells she can cast to get good use out of her.
Blue Knight: Really good, but personally I do not like him. Don't run him unless you plan to build your entire book around him.
Ehren: Again really good, but he slows you down to much imo. I've found he is solid in Temple Pallies, but in SWAT ones, he simply slows you down to much imo. He is best cast when you have other threats on the board that let you spend actions to heal him.
Angels: Guarding one is amazing really good creature as everyone knows. Gray angel is HIGHLY underated. Solid attack and stats and if they choose to focus her, just use her innate healing.
Vanguard: Good and cheap, very nice vs rushes. Hit them and he can still guard preserving the mage.
Dorseas: Amazing. 2 Armor 11 health ageis 1 and regen 2 is TOUGH! And on top of that he has his insane passive healing ability to any other creature in the zone. Very good!
Knight of Westlock: Solid big gun. Versatile, can tank a few hits, and if all else fails, has a pretty good dodge.
Griffin: I like them, but they are not as good as some people think IMO. 1 Flyer hinders them and they suffer from bad initial dice. Would run maybe 1, no more in most books.
All clerics: Dawnbreakers initiate is really good for winning the positioning battle, and has solid stats. Clerics are ok, their 1 die heal and versatility are really nice, but works better with priest. Disciples can be good in temple builds or kill zones, not much other uses imo.
Brogan: Beast. Kills everything not flying. He's only very good in certain situations, but he is worth every sbp and point of mana imo.
Artimuis and Light of dawn: Good range attackers. Artimuis is best as a secondary threat after something like blue knight. Be prepared to dispel chant of rage asap. Light of dawn is cheapish and has solid stats. Run lesser teleports to move them around.
Aurora: Really good vs minor creature swarms. Pretty good stats and all. Depends on build whether you want to run her or not, but I would consider her for sure in a lot of pallies since he struggles with swarms.
Think that is most everyone important, tell me if I missed anyone ;)!
PS: Forgot to mention this. The lightning knight opening is puddnhead's idea. The "heaven temple"build uses Coshade's priest's opener, but I actually did a lot of testing: 5 other openers as well so I came up with that a bit on my own I suppose.
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Reddicediaries on March 16, 2017, 11:55:55 AM
Oh I forgot Metatron.
Personally I do not like him. He requires a LOT of set up and suffers for poor initial stats. 1 armor 9 health and maybe aeiges is not good. Sure he has flying, but a good player will have their own flyers and/or gravikor/ mage wand with knockdown. Or even attack spells that trade decently vs him.
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Werekingdom on March 16, 2017, 12:00:31 PM
Hey guys,

I normally use the Temple in the Begining and the Banner in the late game to act as a finishing blow.
On the topic of the Banner, I did make a deck that would give you a positive Banner, unfortunately, the temple is just better. (for some reason people tend to leave the temple alone and atk the banner, it makes no scene).

So far this is the only deck I have that the Banner has gone positive on a regular bases.
(opponent goes first)
T1 (19): -Battle Forge -8, -Crusade Banner -7, (End qc Banner in zone A1).

T2 (14): >Signet of the Dawnbreaker -2(from BF),-Tanglevine -5, -Astral Anchor -6, (Challenge then tanglevine enemy mage, so you can gain Valor when he atks the tanglevine).

T3 (10): >Sword of Radiance -7(from BF), -Arcane Ward -2 (on Anchor), -Atk with mage (gain mana, possible spend a valor to add swords effects), (The idea is to trap and daze the enemy mage).
Title: Re: Mage Wars Best Openings Paladin
Post by: Super Sorcerer on March 17, 2017, 05:10:31 AM
ב"ה

I usually play this opening-
19
1) hand of bim shalla + temple of asyra
13/1
2) 2 face down enchantment (or a leather piece + face down enchantment)
18/2
3) a fairly big creature + champions gauntlets + dawnbreaker ring.

The long game plan is something like-
On rounds 5 and 7 I usually only have mana for a meditating monk or a 5 mana cleric since these are the rounds I bring the heavy equipment, so I usually favor the clerics with 3 dice attack since I could use them later for melee. later on I use the temple to bring reinforcements.