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Messages - shoopufff

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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« on: November 16, 2019, 05:13:51 PM »
Along the lines of Holy Mage only, I think it makes a lot more sense thematically that they would be the only ones able to use it.

It would also give you a very good reason to pick them if you want to use it.

But really, I would like to see more cards that affect the board like Pillar and the other traps because they feel like a design space that has not been used that much in Mage Wars.

General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« on: November 16, 2019, 02:47:12 AM »
That's a fair assessment. The primary reason to use that card in a comparison of the epic trait and its effect was because it has the simplest example of an epic to non-epic comparison.

Another epic card that I would argue has potentially even more power than Pillar is "Idol of Pestilence" which is also usable by all mages and affects all living creatures in all zones (except the necromancer).

I would argue that in the same way that Pillar counters and neuters non-living creatures, Idol of Pestilence has an even stronger effect on living creatures, especially with a focus low cost swarm style ones. Especially in conjunction with Deathlock (which is also epic and usable by all mages).

But, I don't think Pillar or these cards are required in every book just because they are super amazing at what they do.

General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« on: November 16, 2019, 12:32:51 AM »
Solid write up!

I do think Pillar is an extremely powerful card and I would not be upset if it was changed but I also do not think it breaks the game or forces you to put it in every deck.

So, for the sake of discussion, I will dig into this a bit more to examine what makes Pillar appear so much better seeming than other options.

Pillar of Righteous Flame is first and foremost an EPIC card. This means you can only have 1 and in this respect if you look at most other cards with the epic trait, you'll see that they are far better than their non-epic counterparts, for good reason because you can only have 1 ever.

With that in mind, let's look at some easy to compare cards 1 epic and 1 not.

Heal - Quickcast - 9 mana - holy 2 - living creature - 8 dice
Lay Hands - Quickcast - 9 mana - holy 3 - Living non-mage creature - 12 dice and infinite condition removal for relevant cost

So the first major difference of course is that Lay Hands cannot target the mage, which is a reasonable downside because that is the most important creature there is and the one you'd likely want to heal most. However, quoting you in from your post:

But highly situational cards are not judged by their worst case, but by their best case.

Lets ignore that bit and focus on what it's good at, healing other creatures. Using that we can see that for the same mana it's 1.5X as effective as heal in dice alone and comes with the extra condition removal, if we measure that with another known spell (Cure) that gives you the ability to remove a single condition we can estimate that cost to at least 2 mana because while that spell also heals 2 attack dice, you can only remove a single condition. With this I would estimate an Epic card is roughly twice as powerful as a relevant non-epic card.

Taking this information let's go back to the spell that I agree is closest to Pillar in function, Thunderstorm. Let's see if we can backtrack and find out where Pillar is about twice as powerful based on the above. So if we first try to measure their comparable attacks we can take two extremely similar light and lightning attacks namely, Arc Lightning and Sunfire Burst.

They both have range of 0-1 / ethereal & unavoidable / arguably similar effects and cost 5 mana. However, notably the light attack has the +2 against nonliving (like Pillar) but interestingly, has 1 less attack die than arc lightning. By this I think we can agree that pillar has 2 extra attack dice when compared to Thunderstorm with arc lightning and sunfire burst as our models for comparing light and lightning attacks.

So, with this knowledge we could say just by the default attacks Pillar has at least ~1.5X the power of Thunderstorm just by the attack power alone because it has 1 extra dice in addition to the situational +2 vs nonliving.

However, as you noted, pillar attacks on entry which if you assume they both get the same number of attacks is either 2X as many attacks to 1.33X. This is determined by assuming worst and best case for casting the spell (only gets 1 attack from dissipates so adding another attack doubles the attacks, to gets all 3 where it only adds an extra attack out of 3. e.g. 1.33X). Taking into consideration that pillar costs 1.5X mana (3 extra) as Thunderstorm, we could potentially just chalk this extra attack part up to that difference.

But, there is still one more aspect to Pillar that Thunderstorm doesn't account for, which is the free attack on any enemy creature that enters the zone. This is similar to caltrops and bed of urchins as you mentioned, but those are permanent (and removable) vs a temporary barrier. Yet again, there is another significant difference that they cannot attack flying creatures which is impossible to measure with known cards since there is no other card with all these qualities. With this, it should easily put it up to the 2X power threshold of an epic spell if we value caltrops (5 mana) and bed of urchins (7 mana) very conservatively.

This is all without mentioning that there is one other significant benefit to Pillar which is that it only attacks enemy creatures. Caltrops, bed of urchins and even THUNDERSTORM will attack any creature in its zone because it does not make the enemy distinction.

So, overall, while Pillar is obviously a very strong card I don't know if I think it's as egregious or offensive enough to ruin the game. In fact, I wish there were more cards that change the dynamic of the battlefield like Pillar because it changes how you think and makes games that much more interesting in my opinion.

Thank you for the post Enti! I always enjoy reading your insights into the game.

Spells / Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« on: January 28, 2019, 08:15:58 PM »
Yeah that's fair, it would be useful against buffed up first attacks but overall, if they are going swarm it's quite likely they will have more than one and unless you have an infinite defense, it will still only reduce a small amount of incoming damage.

I would argue that killing the things that make them strong (Straywood scout / marked for death / etherian lifetree) would be more beneficial than trying to get defenses overall.

In that regard I think your best bet is to get into the zone where these things are congregated and prepare a zone attack like you suggested because those seem to be the most effective way to deal with swarms as you said. But of course, the enemy mage using swarms will be aware of that too and try to thwart you.

Also, congrats on the tournament, looking forward to the update!

Spells / Re: Buffs and Counters to Killer Bees
« on: January 27, 2019, 07:18:25 AM »
Hey, just read the post and I believe the part about defenses is incorrect. I dug up an old forum post from Arcanus (The game creator) which stated that additional strikes are extremely good against defenses which would make swarms explicitly good against them because the defense only applies to the first attack (as Farkas noted about reverse attack but seemed to suggest defenses were a good counter?).

Here is the relevant portion of the quote for those curious:

The short answer is that Reverse Attack only bounces back the very first individual attack or strike.  It will not affect additional strikes or attacks. 

This is also realistic;  The Reverse Attack is a force bubble that bounces the first attack back.  After that attack is bounced, it is destroyed.  SO, successive attacks or strikes, after the first one, are not bounced back.  As much as possible, we try to make Mage Wars realistic and intuitive, unless it overly adds complication.

Creatures with doublestrike or triplestrike are very effective against Defenses, because only the first attack or strike is affected.  Block and Reverse Attack are also a Defense and work the same way, which keeps them consistent.

Now, here is the long explanation, in case anyone is interested!   :)

An attack action is a creature action (quick or full) used to make an attack. Sometimes the attack action will be an individual attack, or it might comprise multiple separate attacks (also referred to as "strikes").  Each individual attack in that action is called an attack sequence

For example, double strike, triplestrike, and sweeping are one attack action (always a full action), but have multiple attack sequences.  Some attacks do not follow all of the steps of the attack sequence.  For example, the second attack sequence of a Doublestrike attack action, skips the Declare Attack Step and only has 3 steps.

Defenses, like Block and Reverse Attack, only affect one attack sequence.

When an attacker (which we will call Creature A) attacks the creature enchanted with Reverse Attack (which we will call Creature B), Reverse Attack must be revealed during the Avoid Attack Step. If the Reverse Attack effect occurs, the remainder of Creature A's attack sequence is canceled, and instead Creature B must immediately make an identical attack sequence targeting Object A. This reversed attack sequence is then resolved as normal.

If Object A's original attack action consisted of multiple attack sequences (doublestrike triplestrike, sweeping, etc.), Object A picks up the series of attack sequences where it left off after reversing the first sequence.

Events / Re: ADMW 2-2 Mage Wars Tournament
« on: January 22, 2019, 09:24:10 PM »
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply!

Events / Re: ADMW 2-2 Mage Wars Tournament
« on: January 22, 2019, 07:54:42 PM »
Hey Coshade, thanks for setting up the tournament!

Quick clarification on the following:

If you receive a Bye it will be considered a win. In that case you must choose a mage to be marked as a played mage.

I do not see any other mentions on the rules for this and am not familiar with the ADMW format (having not participated/seen it before), can you expand on the mage being marked and played portion specifically?

General Discussion / Re: Silence
« on: October 22, 2018, 02:36:47 AM »
I've only been mage wars (only playing arena) for a short time and I think it is hands down the smartest and most well put together card game I've engaged with.

That being said, it saddens me that it's not more popular or hasn't been experienced by a wider audience that I think it deserves, much more so than MTG or any other TCG, in my humble opinion.

It's particularly unfortunate for me getting excited about the game when it seems to be on its last legs as far as support and participation, especially considering Arcane Wonders apparent negligence with any communication that further ostracizes the small but extremely loyal player-base it seemed to have.

I can only hope for the best and perhaps they will revitalize it in the future, but I doubt it.

Events / Re: July Mini OCTGN Tournamnet 2018
« on: August 22, 2018, 04:56:27 PM »
Levitari :]

You know, I never thought about naming it, but I like the way that sounds.

Events / Re: July Mini OCTGN Tournamnet 2018
« on: August 16, 2018, 12:01:49 AM »
I made a quick rundown of the match in story form since I don't believe either me or Enti recorded the game.

I shortened it quite a bit at the end if anyone wants to update it or change it feel free, enjoy :]


The morning dew is cold on Johktari's feet as she steps through the grass.

In the distance is the Gate to Voltari with the wizard nearby empowering it.

Johktari puts on her ring of enchantment and springs forward to close the distance between herself and the wizards encampment.

As she does this, the wizard enchants himself in preparation for what's to come, so she does the same.

The gate siphons power from Johktari and a blue gremlin bursts through it.

Johktari calls upon her trustworthy beast, the Leviathan.

The wizard dispels the hidden Rhino Hide on Johktari and conjures another enchantment on himself for future use.

Johktari imbues her leviathan with unseen power and braces herself for combat.

Another blue gremlin pours out of the gate and the wizard gains the senses of a Hawk and blasts Johktari with a Jet Stream pushing her against the arena wall and leaving her dazed.

The Johktari tactically repositions and infuses her Leviathan with more hidden power.

The first blue Gremlin leaps to his master's aid and guards him from the unwelcome threats.

The Leviathan with the speed of a cheetah, charges into the space occupied by the Wizard and his pet.

The wizard quickly places an enchantment on the Leviathan while Johktari gives herself the regenerative properties of an in iguana.

A jade gremlin comes out of the gate and the wizard ensares of mind of the leviathan with an unspeakable rage for the tiny green gremlin.

Johktari says a small incantation to infuriate the leviathan further into a frenzy as he charges to the where the gremlins and gate lie.

The small gremlin yelps in fear as the Leviathan's eyes take on the aspect of a falcon and he eats the pest in a single gulp. The rage subsides but he unleashes his remaining fury on the blue gremlin who cowers in fear as the Leviathan devours him as well.

The wizard and his remaining blue gremlin assault the Johktari with some well placed blows when she tries to run away from them.

The wizard continues to dispel Johktari's enchantments, attempting to wittle her down while keeping the monstrous leviathan at bay by teleporting it and creating a wall from the very bones of his poor minions.

Alas, it is to no avail as the Leviathan crushes the wall and continues his chase onto the wizard with several furious blows and while contstricted and locked down by vines he gasps his last breath before being taken like so many others into the gaping maw of the beast.

Events / Re: July Mini OCTGN Tournamnet 2018
« on: June 28, 2018, 04:04:33 PM »
You can count me in :]

Events / Re: OCTGN tournaments
« on: June 06, 2018, 02:01:11 PM »
Count me in!  :)

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