August 15, 2022, 07:29:49 AM

Author Topic: Tainted  (Read 12714 times)

sIKE

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2013, 02:05:42 PM »
From the v2 Codex:

Quote
Finite Life
This creature cannot heal, regenerate, or gain life. If the creature gained Life before it gained this trait, it keeps that Life but cannot gain additional Life. All Nonliving objects have Finite Life.

I can not see any reason that Tainted condition not having an interaction with the Finite Life trait. While it is quite nasty if you have the condition you would want to work very hard to not have this condition removed  while having this trait.

Might make a Warlock think twice about dropping a Deathlock. 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 04:59:39 PM by pixelgeek »
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baronzaltor

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2013, 02:06:47 PM »
I dont think itd work for removing bleed.   Bleed is removed if you opt to do so in place of healing a point of damage, but since Finite Life prevents the 1 point of healing, you don't have it to use to meet the bleeds criteria.

Hale_32bit

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2013, 10:36:13 PM »
Quote
I dont think itd work for removing bleed.

It would have been too strong combo  (bleed + finitelife).

Quote
Bleed is removed if you opt to do so in place of healing a point of damage, but since Finite Life prevents the 1 point of healing, you don't have it to use to meet the bleeds criteria.
Maybe there is another order of actions: prevention after opt.

baronzaltor

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2013, 11:01:59 PM »
Well I assume normal means of removing conditions would work as normal during finite life (wand of healing/priestess/healing spring) but just the secondary removal option of purgiing via normal healing seems like it would be stopped.

ringkichard

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2013, 04:58:12 PM »

Two issues that I have

1) It makes Tainted and Finite Life a really nasty combo. Perhaps too nasty
2) I think it is actually simpler if Tainted had no interaction with Finite Life and that the removal of the condition was not affected by Finite Life.

In regards to it then not being as effective against creatures with Finite Life, that would, at least to me, be consistent with what the condition is meant to be. Its difficult to taint something that can't be effected by healing.

I'll have to defer to you on the power level issue; I haven't played as Damage over Time Warlock or played against Necro at all, so I have no real way to judge. You're right that it's a potential combo, but it's not that good with the two tainted cards I've seen so far.

Drain Soul is terrible with Deathlock, because you don't get any of the life gain. The combo with the Spider is okay? The spider doesn't seem like it fits any current Nature book archatypes that would want to give up healing, but maybe a Dark book that currently plays Basilisk might want it.

The situation I'm imagining is a Necro with a creature that taints and does damage, and also a Deathlock. Against an opposing Wizard, neither the taints or the damage are likely to be healable. If the wizard packs a wand of healing, though, the damage won't be healable, and the taints ... might be? Priestess, of course, is a special case.

My suspicion is that "compatable" Deathlock would make Tainted as good as Deathlock makes damage. If Tainted is priced more cheaply than damage, I can see how that might be a problem.

To put it another way, Deathlock already makes normal damage better than vanilla Tainted (mostly. Tainted ignores armor, but is a poison effect.). If it Deathlock also brings Tainted "up to par," is that too good? 

Of course, it's possible that Deathlock is the problem card, not the tainted mechanic, but we've never had the tools to make it matter, before. I mention this because it seems like Deathlock makes Bleed as good as Deathlock makes Rot, and that's a clear power upgrade that's more likely to be a balance problem. (Not saying it is, just that it seems more powerful.)

As for your second point... man, I don't know. I would expect that a card that prevents me from gaining life would, in all cases, prevent my life from going up. Maybe I just have that expectation from playing too much MtG?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 11:01:00 PM by ringkichard »
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Arcanus

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 04:04:33 PM »
Our apologies for any confusion. 

Tainted: Removing Tainted is not affected by Finite Life. It is not considered healing (even though removing the poison has the effect of removing 3 damage).

Bleed:  You can remove Bleed by converting one point of healing to remove the Bleed.  If there is no healing, then you have nothing to convert.  Therefore, Finite Life does affect Bleed in this manner.

We have added these notes to the Kumanjaro rulebook for its final printing.

sdougla2

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 04:11:02 PM »
Good, I think that's the best mix of making sense with existing abilities while still being easily trackable.
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sIKE

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2013, 05:21:24 PM »
Arcanus,

Is this a one off ruling or does Bull Endurance fall into the same category?

Tahnks!
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ringkichard

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2013, 05:53:32 PM »
Cool, thanks!
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Arcanus

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2013, 11:14:37 PM »
Hi sIKE,

Answering your question above sir;  If the creature gained the Life before Finite Life comes into play, it may keep that Life.  If it gains the Life after Finite Life came into play, then it does not gain Life.  So, it just depends upon when the Bull Endurance was played in relationship to that creature gaining Finite Life.

Hope that helps!

sIKE

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Re: Tainted
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 09:10:06 AM »
Ahh, Very nice way to slice the knot! I like it!
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