January 27, 2022, 11:12:17 PM

Author Topic: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Strategies REVISED  (Read 20323 times)

nitrodavid

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 11:13:02 PM »
a wizard creature build can be easy, I would not recommend a mana suppression deck to beginners. also note most of wizards creatures are slow so they require teleport combos to work. not the best start for beginners.

i found warlock and beast master (non swarm) were the easiest decks for new players to use all there combos work out simply
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

sdougla2

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2013, 11:30:19 PM »
this whole thread is advice for new learners. I would not put the force master 10 dice x2 (BF) build as one to  recommend to beginners. that fm build is very vulnerable to shut down if a beginner users it.

yes I understand that your X mage build doesn't use big creatures and you have won a lot with it, but you guys are not beginner players.

the advice this thread gives is valid for beginners (usually people who haven't made a spell book from scratch) and what I will tell all the people I demo from now on

PS. I would also put swarm in a non beginner category because it to can be easily shut down if you are new to the game.

Fair enough. Both swarm and solo play are vulnerable to counters, and you need to be aware of those counters so as to minimize them and avoid overcommitting.
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reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 12:19:15 AM »
a wizard creature build can be easy, I would not recommend a mana suppression deck to beginners. also note most of wizards creatures are slow so they require teleport combos to work. not the best start for beginners.

i found warlock and beast master (non swarm) were the easiest decks for new players to use all there combos work out simply

I wouldn't say they need teleporting to "work" but you're correct that they do need some kind of mobility support (Cheetah Speed is fine too) if you want to use them offensively, rather than to protect conjurations or your mage.  Quick action attacks don't mean much if you're too slow for it to matter, after all.

And thanks overall.  This thread is meant for beginners mainly, yes, but really anyone who needs some help knowing how to set up quick and easy can take something away from what I wrote.  I do realize the Forcemaster plays differently (she's my second-most played mage, after all), but think even her baseline gameplay does involve leaning on a couple creatures.
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baronzaltor

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 01:20:44 AM »
I think for a new player Warlock or Priestess would be good because it involves a lot of the mechanics... you get a solid mix of cards.  A strong creature play option (knights/demons), attack spells (fire/light), a good mix of equipments (lash, demonhide armor, staff of asyra, etc),  and incantions (heals, dissolves, etc etc), with a couple conjurations (temples, altars, etc) and you get mage abilities that demonstrate right off the bat the relationship of health loss vs damage (blood reaper and holy life gain.)

jomurph86

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 11:52:55 PM »
Thanks for doing these, reddawn.  My buddy who I mainly play MW with has been playing Magic for 15 years and eats up all the game theory articles on this site.  I've read and enjoy them, but have trouble translating them into practical action on the game board.  I appreciate the straight up strategy advice.  Keep it up!

CanadaAndy

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 10:58:55 AM »
So is the general feeling that it is better to get a big creature out early RATHER than a spawnpoint? Spawnpoints usually cost as much as a big creature (14-15 or so), so they would hinder your ability to bring out a fattie.

How do people feel about spawnpoints?

reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2013, 02:54:51 PM »
So is the general feeling that it is better to get a big creature out early RATHER than a spawnpoint? Spawnpoints usually cost as much as a big creature (14-15 or so), so they would hinder your ability to bring out a fattie.

How do people feel about spawnpoints?

Spawnpoints are a cool concept, but I'm not sure where they fit in strategy-wise.  I know that in the games that I have played one, spending so much mana on a spawnpoint often leaves me unable to either properly defend myself or mount an effective attack. 

Battleforge is fine, though.  But it's also, not coincidentally, the least expensive option.

As it stands, there are lot less expensive ways to give yourself an action or mana advantage.   Depending on the mage matchup, you might want a Mana Crystal, or an extra creature, etc, and that's fine because the investment isn't that large and it won't slow you down much.  Spawnpoints, however, require enormous amounts of mana and often actions to really get working, and by that time you're probably in real trouble.

Basically, they seem to be in the game more for flavor than competitive consideration, and from what I've read from playtester posts, they appear to agree.
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sdougla2

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2013, 03:33:04 PM »
I don't really use spawnpoints aside from Battleforge, but I have a few ideas that I'd like to test involving them, so I haven't completely given up on them yet.

I can see Temple of Asyra working alright if you use your mage's activation to beat face with Staff of Asyra, but the other creature spawnpoints are pretty expensive. Also, don't try to improve the channeling on Temple of Asyra with Clerics of Asyra. They're too vulnerable, and it makes your opening much, much too slow.

You need to do something to slow down your opponent if you want to take advantage of creature spawnpoints, or they'll just kill you before you get much advantage out of the spawnpoint. I suspect that the new 11-12 mana Intercept creatures will improve spawnpoints a bit by giving you a cheap enough defensive option that you can play a spawnpoint and buy some time while the mana/action advantage offered by the spawnpoint has a chance to kick in.
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reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 05:14:39 PM »
Yup, I had the same ideas about the new super-defensive creatures.  They might be just what spawnpoint openings need to survive long enough to take advantage of the extra mana and actions.

@Jomurph: No problem.  Game theory is interesting, but it tends to really only make practical sense to those players that have a lot of in-game experience...and even then, there's a lot that could go wrong in terms of how someone interprets terms like "tempo" or "aggro," because those terms tend to mean very different things depending on the game you are playing.

Aggro, in a Magic: The Gathering context for example, translates almost exclusively into playing a ton of small creatures very early on.  In Mage Wars, however, it means something very different; you often play both offensively and defensively at various points in the game, or even in the same round.  Thus, that's why I really emphasize learning the basics of the game and playing with an open mind because you could get confused or confuse one of your friends if they don't share the "theoretical" idea of what aggro is or isn't. 

It sounds confusing just writing about it, actually.

Long story short, generic gaming terms like "aggro" or "control" aren't as exclusive or strict when it comes to MW, so I usually tend to avoid them.
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reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2013, 04:16:38 PM »
Added a quick note on Mana conjurations/rings.  While I think it is possible to win without increasing your channeling at the start of the game with a couple of the mages, some of the new cards, like those creatures with Intercept, make fully aggro builds more challenging to play. 

For this reason, and with more experience under my belt, I now observe and contend that most builds need some way of competing in mana to remain effective over the course of a game.   The basic concept of getting larger creature out in the first few turns remains the same, but just be sure to increase you channeling on the first turn of the game. 

Personally, I've found 2x Mana Crystal/Mana Flower on Turn 1 to be a good standard start, with a class-respective Mana ring (Ring of Beasts, Ring of Curses, Ring of Command, etc) and a powerful creature on Turn 2 a good follow up.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 04:20:52 PM by reddawn »
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Aquila

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2013, 04:09:20 AM »
I think, playing a big creature in the beginning is not the best option! You force your Opponent to react on that, and he will! If he's not careless he will try to kill the crit as soon as possible, leaving you with a mana deficit and your best creature gone! Sleep it (bad chances to wake it up without a second crit or loosing an attackspell)! Banish it, Tanglewine it, Pit it, Forcehold it, Teleport it, there are to many ways to deal with a single bady!! Bether is to come up with one or even bether with two mid creatures to get him busy and in this time to arm for the final blow with your Killer! Far more unexpected and less likely to be killed by now!
I've seen it as BM! Two Trolls in the beginning are Horror, they were nearly unstopable and drew the complete atention on them! Finally a Grizzly and the lightning deer left him no chance!! I was at 40 health with this new awesome ring and a regen belt! Awesome!  ;D

reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2013, 04:57:33 AM »
If you read the bolded points, I don't say to cast just one large creatures; I say to cast a large creature followed by 1-2 smaller, medium sized ones.  I suppose I should clarify that by medium size I mean around 12-13 mana, which seems to be the point at which creatures start rolling higher than 4 attack dice. 

So, if you wanted a good Warlock opening, you could do something like Turn 1 = QC Mana Crystal, move, Mana Crystal, Turn 2 = Ring of Curses, move, Turn 3 = Adramelech, Turn 4 = Bloodreaper Slayer, Turn 5 = Slayer, or maybe a Hellion.

You could opt for a faster start with Turn 1 = Mana Crystal, move, move, Turn 2 = Adramelech, Turn 3 = Bloodreaper Slayer, but the first opening is more forgiving if you aren't used to playing extremely aggressively (which is harder now with the new Intercept creatures).
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Nicho2222

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Summons
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2013, 09:31:26 PM »
I would tend to agree that a good opening for beginners is a high level creature followed by a few mid level creatures.  For a Warlord this tends to mean either Grimson or Thorg as an opening, followed by 2 dwarf panzergardes for me.  They may not have a huge attack but are great at protecting my mage and grimson.

reddawn

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Strategies REVISED
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM »
I've revised the entire article to reflect the current state of Mage Wars.  Please read and feel free to agree, disagree, cajole, compliment, etc anything I wrote.  Also, I probably missed something somewhere, so if anything comes to mind, mention it and I'll include it.
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sIKE

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Re: Arena Axioms 1: Opening Strategies REVISED
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 08:55:27 PM »
@reddawn

wb!

I think a big shift has been with the addition of Acid Ball, Rust, and to a less extent Corrosive Orchid . I played a game the other day where my opponent would spend on an Acid Ball or Rust and I would have to counter it by casting a replacement piece of armor that cost more than the Corrode spell in the first place. Previously that would be a Dissolve and you could only carry so many of those and had to make sure you saved one or two for a Wand or Lash. These guys don't strip you of armor they just neuter it. Timed with initiative many times you will find yourself with no armor and then a big hit is headed your way.
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