January 21, 2022, 02:19:48 PM

Author Topic: Walls  (Read 8939 times)

Artemus Maximus

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Re: Walls
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2013, 03:27:18 PM »
Thanks sIKE

So focus on using archers as win condition instead? Hmm... i like w/ hawkeye, sniper shot on helm, release volley! to augment.

Maybe once a wall is breached, replace w/ less expensive wall o' pikes, spike pit, teleport trap, quicksand in the zone to be entered behind the wall...

After wall of pikes goes up, the ballista and/or slingers can come out.

I have only about 20 games or so with Warlord against a small pool of opponents, but it seems the huge drawback with this is luck and lack of flexibility. Maybe this strategy works better with someone other than Warlord?

Fentum

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Re: Walls
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2013, 05:30:06 PM »
Thanks sIKE

So focus on using archers as win condition instead? Hmm... i like w/ hawkeye, sniper shot on helm, release volley! to augment.

Maybe once a wall is breached, replace w/ less expensive wall o' pikes, spike pit, teleport trap, quicksand in the zone to be entered behind the wall...

After wall of pikes goes up, the ballista and/or slingers can come out.

I have only about 20 games or so with Warlord against a small pool of opponents, but it seems the huge drawback with this is luck and lack of flexibility. Maybe this strategy works better with someone other than Warlord?

EVERY strategy works better with someone other than Warlord.    :-\


DeckBuilder

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Re: Walls
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2013, 07:10:45 PM »
Nice strategy sIKE!

But do you think this strategy is dependent on opponent? I'd really like to see Warlord Archer Walled Fort work. But I think it's inconsistent. When I've tried it, I always encounter one of the many counters: Vampiress, Lord of Fire, Angel of Light, Gray Angel Avenger, Blue Gremlin, Eagle Wings (on Cevere or Galador to bypass guards), Huginn Teleport, Thoughtspore Force Push etc. Every book has a counter beyond Intercept or a Wall.

Also if you have Hawkeye Sniper Tower Near Centre to give enemy mage nowhere to hide, then where do you place the less threatening Slinger Tower when facing Intercept? The utterly ridiculous Outpost rule... And Intercept is saved for Grimson of course, not compulsory like distracting a guard with a Feral Bobcat. If you place a Tower on each Wall flank, then enemy mage is safe from Grimson in a corner and can be protected by an Intercept or just a Wall from the Slinger.

You can Helm Sniper Shot vs. Defence (but not other Commands like Piercing Strike) and you got Release Volley Battle Order so it can be a solid strategy against some books. It's a shame Unavoidable doesn't bypass Intercept (like Elusive with normal guards). The 4th Steel Wall can be cast in that quick action right after a breach. Force Wave cast by the Warlord on the other side would be nice etc. (Force Wave is always useful to position ranged full action units). Yeah I can see where this could go...

I'm not saying it's not solid. I tend to believe Grimson + Hawkeye is a great corner opening, next turn Tower, giving you board control over 9 squares. I now believe Thorg is best to protect him but 2 Steel Walls to enclose in an emergency is useful (e.g. last action Cheetah Speed Grizzly approaches from safe zone, next turn will be on Grimson first action unless you wall up Early QC). Falcons do it on a walled Sniper. Let's not talk about about Teleport as Warlord will be targeted instead for assassination. I really want Warlord Archer Walled Fort to work. But sadly I really don't think it does. My suspicion is currently (pre DvN), the best Warlord strategy is detailed in the thread below.

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13017.0

Please can a designer explain to us:
1. why have Melee +1 but have a slant to turtle ranged as his best strategy?
2. why have Garrisons pump Barracks but only apply to Warlord's summons?
3. why give him a 2 handed weapon as a warrior yet a Horn as a general?
4. why his best troops either cost 5 (Bridge Trolls) or not soldiers (Golems)?
5. why battle orders promote stacking yet zonal control requires spreading?
6. how useful is veterans when few creatures get killed in a Big Few meta?
7. why the need to have the non-adjacent Outpost rule?

I could go on but those come to mind. I can just scream at deliberate anti-synergies (schizophrenic warrior general) built into this exciting concept that is every miniatures player's favourite. Every time I try to play him, I scream out "Aaaagh, what were the design team thinking?" And then I switch to Earth Wizard.

My biggest hate is that Outpost rule. This is a deliberate nerfing because obviously having them adjacent came off too powerful in testing. Really? If only this rule did not exist (and Garrison Posts applied to all summons), the Warlord would have so much more flexibility to play zonal control. The fact that they deliberately hobbled the Warlord out of competitiveness with an unnecessary nerf just makes me sad... :(
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 07:47:56 PM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Walls
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 04:56:52 AM »
I just reread Artemus' post. In a promo world of Gravikor and Ballista, this would work. My bad.

Gravikor is fine, hope in next set to make walls better, but Ballista will be nerfed before release.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

Wiz-Pig

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Re: Walls
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 02:54:06 PM »
I just reread Artemus' post. In a promo world of Gravikor and Ballista, this would work. My bad.

Gravikor is fine, hope in next set to make walls better, but Ballista will be nerfed before release.

Has that been decided now? They always sound so defiant and resolved until they suddenly cave, hopefully they won't overreact this time like they did with Temple of Light.

sIKE

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Re: Walls
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 05:12:00 PM »
Thanks sIKE

So focus on using archers as win condition instead? Hmm... i like w/ hawkeye, sniper shot on helm, release volley! to augment.

Maybe once a wall is breached, replace w/ less expensive wall o' pikes, spike pit, teleport trap, quicksand in the zone to be entered behind the wall...

After wall of pikes goes up, the ballista and/or slingers can come out.

I have only about 20 games or so with Warlord against a small pool of opponents, but it seems the huge drawback with this is luck and lack of flexibility. Maybe this strategy works better with someone other than Warlord?

As I stated in my first comment on this thread, I have played against this style of deck with the Warlord as the opposing mage a couple of time. Each time the Warlord lost, and the games were long long 3-4 hours with me slowly grinding the opposing mage to bits. Not a lot of fun from my perspective, the player label it a "fun" build.

My observations were what I thought they did wrong and lead to their loss. If you get the walls up, you need to focus your energy on the death of the mage and protecting your snipers. As was pointed out placing of the Archers Towers are important but do allow for some board control. You might consider adding in a Blue Gremlin into the kit >:) buff him and send him though to terrorize your opponent "behind enemy lines"....
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Artemus Maximus

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Re: Walls
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 06:41:06 PM »
Yeah i have to admit, it really seems more like a traditional Dwarvish strategy than Orcish. Especially when you conaider that the best archers are Dwarves, High Elves, soon Spitting Raptor maybe for armor (in an archer's tower! Lol) ...  on the same token, adding in blue gremlins and apes might be good distractions.

Maybe with Dwarf Warlord release it will be more efficient...some more indirect attack options, like catapult w/ corrode maybe, etc. So it doesnt drag on for so long, which i agree, seems to be what im experiencing. Played a game Sunday w/ Stonewall Warlord v Temple Priestess w lots of angels. After about 2.5 hours i finally won via conceding because at the rate of damage and healing id eventually prob win, and that was with Warlord climbing over the wall to Dissolve Regrowth Belt and Sunfire Amulet near the end. Angels broke through only once, teleported one back out via trap, Pit stuck another which Golem and Warlord killed. Definitely needed the second tower and Gravikor and repairing goblins. Ballista wouldnt have done much really i think. A more aggresive build up front wouldve broke through sooner and ruined the whole initial setup i think...my opponent allowed me way too much time to set up defenses.

Back on the subject of  walls, the new nature Bloodspine one is what i wanted wall of pikes to be :-)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:43:58 PM by Artemus Maximus »

sIKE

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Re: Walls
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 07:45:07 PM »
Back on the subject of  walls, the new nature Bloodspine one is what i wanted wall of pikes to be :-)
I don't know nothing is as fun as a Disolve + WoT + Push with good planning and placement of your mage you can get a second one with the other mage armored up though....
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RogRog1

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Re: Walls
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2013, 09:44:42 PM »
I like when my opponent uses a wall to corner himself.  I run around using fast, or climb over them with boots.  Throw a wall of thorns down and force them thru it.  Usually an end game tactic.  10 attack die to a weak Mage often does serious damage.  Its also nice to have a creature on the other side of thorns to prevent an escape.