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Author Topic: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify  (Read 12728 times)

baronzaltor

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 04:28:31 PM »
Decoy is even better when Fellela casts it for you.. because you gain 2 mana when its revealed instead of it being a 2 mana refund from casting it.  (assuming Fellela has been paying for herself and been worth her own cost and happily alive.)

DeckBuilder

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 04:36:15 PM »
Yep.
The game has so many good mechanics all melded together and that's what makes it survive these mistakes
Much of it is just resource management, investing in assets expecting good return over an antiipated lifetime
I find those mechanics in many Eurogames, though none of them chromed up so flavoursome like Mage Wars

But what makes it so special to me is the hidden enchantment mechanic

More triggered enchants would be great
I've never actually pulled off the "I Reverse Attack your Reverse Attack" coup but assume it's rules legal
Nobody plays them anyway because of the silly Unavoidable nerf
But even persistent enchants timed at the right moment can be great
"I reveal Cobra Reflexes in Avoid attack step, Oh, I guess I better reveal my Falcon Precision then"
It's never happened because they priced Cobra Reflexes too high but it's what could be possible...

I grudgingly understand why they went for "soft control"
By soft control, it's all these mandatory enchantments (I understand avoid double Nullify but the rest?)
The reality is the game has to be accessible to everyone and encouraging control can strangle a game
Denial and thwarting (cancel, rebound, redirect, return to book etc) is not fun when it gets too strong
And fun has to be the most important criteria for playing MW - this is not $1 million Pro Tour Magic here

But nothing, I mean nothing, beats the look of surprise when you reveal an unexpected enchantment
Surprise!

I use Enchanter's Ring in almost all my builds, even Warlock (for buffs and curse transfusion)
It's probably the best ring because of its versatility (Arcane is best School/Mage limited ring)

I wish they explored Traps more, created more Buffs and more Traps that target zones
Enchantments are only as good as the possibilities it may be and neglecting Traps is such a waste
Again, they made it mandatory when there was absolutely no need - it is a banked range 0 effect

An example of enchantments being only as good as the other possibilities:
If he enchants a conjuration with channeling, you can bet it's a Harmonize
(I've used this assumption to distract him into attacking a Forge with Decoy when he should have gone for me)

DvN is great but it had so few enchantments when it's such an enchanting mechanic
Magic players will understand when I say it's Suspend and Morph and Aura all in one!



Forcemaster is a really challenging build these days
The enchantments route is great fun against Living builds
Mongoose Agility is key to get past all the Charmed guards

I'm trying to salvage Mind Control and the best I could up with is...

You obviously have a Battle Forge (= turn 1 FM action generator) and within 2 of it with LOS
Aggro mage is with his Bear Strength Grizzly (wisely no other buffs) or something similar Elite
You are with them, probably all in the same zone, all cuddling up in a friendly bear hug
In Final QC gaining Initiative next turn, you cast Mind Control on the Elite
In Planning, you choose Nullify and Block (just in case, you plan to buffed Galvitar attack him)
In Deployment, your Forge grants you Healing Wand (essential for FM) to go with Galvitar
Before first action, reveal Mind Control for 8, QC remove Stun for 4 and attack him for 9 dice +1P
Assuming all your prior Force Holds have deprived him of Dispels, he's now in trouble

Naah, it's just too convoluted...
You can do similar just with Force Holds, your innate Force Pull (bypass Nullify) and your buffed Galvitar attacks

Can anybody defend having 1 Mind Control over 3 Force Hold?
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

Sylex

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2014, 04:48:47 PM »
I usually add 2 decoy's in every book in place of a seeking dispel because I use them to blank nullify spells more often than not, and its cheaper unless you're a Wizard of course, BUT I was unaware that you still get the 2 mana back from doing this. Awesome bit of info that I'm SURE my friends will argue over until I show them.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 04:53:23 PM »
Decoy is even better when Fellela casts it for you.. because you gain 2 mana when its revealed instead of it being a 2 mana refund from casting it.  (assuming Fellela has been paying for herself and been worth her own cost and happily alive.)

Nice!

I think the meta has moved away from Unavoidable attacks (beyond Surging Wave) so I may give these flying familiars another go.

What I like about Felella is she can be safe 2 behind buffing as free actions.
For Huginn to be useful (and he can win Jelly Pit Teleport Wars for you), he has to be frontline...
Also Felella can buff herself with Bull Endurance and Regrowth which is why I was attracted to her
But she's so slooow and not an animal for Ring or Lair so she's a fragile focal strategy price really

I remember an early experimental game when I tried "Beastmaster Control" (yes, it's funny looking back on it).
I played her, Warlock advanced and Fireshaper Flameblast turned her to crisp; never gave her a second chance.
Same with Sosruko, barbecued the poor thing. back to your hole, I never gave him a second glance afterwards
What can I say, I'm a love 'em and leave 'em kinda guy. :)

Decoy, eh? Underrated.
Works best against opponents who study your mana available. Or who over-think what that enchantment is.
Er... that sounds like me.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 04:56:25 PM »
I usually add 2 decoy's in every book in place of a seeking dispel because I use them to blank nullify spells more often than not, and its cheaper unless you're a Wizard of course, BUT I was unaware that you still get the 2 mana back from doing this. Awesome bit of info that I'm SURE my friends will argue over until I show them.

Er no. Cancel is NOT destroyed sadly. See my first post in this thread on it.
They are still good though for exactly what the reasons you've given, Sylex.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

webcatcher

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 05:16:51 PM »
Quote
I've never actually pulled off the "I Reverse Attack your Reverse Attack" coup but assume it's rules legal
Nobody plays them anyway because of the silly Unavoidable nerf

I've never used double reverse attack, but I've lost to a single reverse attack before. I had 10 life left and my fully buffed forcemaster attacked for 8 + 4 (we weren't sure if reverse attack reversed both halves of the doublestrike but we eventually decided that it did).

Wildhorn

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2014, 05:19:19 PM »
Decoy is even better when Fellela casts it for you.. because you gain 2 mana when its revealed instead of it being a 2 mana refund from casting it.  (assuming Fellela has been paying for herself and been worth her own cost and happily alive.)

Nice!

I think the meta has moved away from Unavoidable attacks (beyond Surging Wave) so I may give these flying familiars another go.

What I like about Felella is she can be safe 2 behind buffing as free actions.
For Huginn to be useful (and he can win Jelly Pit Teleport Wars for you), he has to be frontline...
Also Felella can buff herself with Bull Endurance and Regrowth which is why I was attracted to her
But she's so slooow and not an animal for Ring or Lair so she's a fragile focal strategy price really

I remember an early experimental game when I tried "Beastmaster Control" (yes, it's funny looking back on it).
I played her, Warlock advanced and Fireshaper Flameblast turned her to crisp; never gave her a second chance.
Same with Sosruko, barbecued the poor thing. back to your hole, I never gave him a second glance afterwards
What can I say, I'm a love 'em and leave 'em kinda guy. :)

Decoy, eh? Underrated.
Works best against opponents who study your mana available. Or who over-think what that enchantment is.
Er... that sounds like me.

If Soskuro ate a Flameblast, he actually played its role quite good. He "taunted" the enemy mage and made him spend an action, a card and mana, while normally with its real taunt he only make the mage waste an action.

Zuberi

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2014, 07:46:45 PM »
@Deckbuilder: I agree mind control might not be the most efficient tactic, but it is still possible to perform.

@Sylex: You only get the mana return from decoy if you reveal it or if it is destroyed after having been successfully cast. You do not get the mana if the spell is countered or cancelled during it's cast (such as happens with Nullify).

@Webcatcher: reverse attack would only reverse the first attack. It would not affect the second one.

The worst surprise I got was when I attacked a grizzly bear who had been put on guard with only 2 life left. Figured I could kill it and not worry about the counter attack. He revealed a reverse attack causing my bear strength angel to attack herself for 6 dice and then he still got to use the bear's counter attack for another 6 dice (he also had bear strength). My angel went from full health to dead from only slightly above average rolls and it really turned the game around for him.

I didn't know that a reverse attack allowed the original target to still use its counter attack until then. It's a lesson I won't forget. If you don't believe it, read about reverse attack in the FAQ.

Charmyna

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 02:46:04 AM »
@Deckbuilder: I agree mind control might not be the most efficient tactic, but it is still possible to perform.

@Sylex: You only get the mana return from decoy if you reveal it or if it is destroyed after having been successfully cast. You do not get the mana if the spell is countered or cancelled during it's cast (such as happens with Nullify).

@Webcatcher: reverse attack would only reverse the first attack. It would not affect the second one.

The worst surprise I got was when I attacked a grizzly bear who had been put on guard with only 2 life left. Figured I could kill it and not worry about the counter attack. He revealed a reverse attack causing my bear strength angel to attack herself for 6 dice and then he still got to use the bear's counter attack for another 6 dice (he also had bear strength). My angel went from full health to dead from only slightly above average rolls and it really turned the game around for him.

I didn't know that a reverse attack allowed the original target to still use its counter attack until then. It's a lesson I won't forget. If you don't believe it, read about reverse attack in the FAQ.

Wow thats a hurting lesson! Thx for sharing it, will keep it in mind :).
Btw the discussion went quite offtopic but since its a fruiful discussion I really dont mind ;). There is not that much to discuss about the OP - its only a fun idea.

Sylex

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 09:53:59 AM »
I usually add 2 decoy's in every book in place of a seeking dispel because I use them to blank nullify spells more often than not, and its cheaper unless you're a Wizard of course, BUT I was unaware that you still get the 2 mana back from doing this. Awesome bit of info that I'm SURE my friends will argue over until I show them.

Er no. Cancel is NOT destroyed sadly. See my first post in this thread on it.
They are still good though for exactly what the reasons you've given, Sylex.

I see, got ahead of myself there. Thanks DB

DaveW

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Re: Funniest way to get rid of Nullify
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2014, 10:13:37 PM »
I like Decoy as well, but I do not usually use them to pop Nullifies since I generally play Wizard. I tend to use the Decoys as fake Teleport Traps or fake Nullifies (or better) of my own. I pack a couple of Jinx's for use as Nullify bait instead of the Decoys.

If the Jinx hits a Nullify, fine... he spend one action and four mana, and I only spend one action and two mana. A Decoy hitting the Nullified Mage does no better... either it costs two mana for my opponent's four (if he chooses to Nullify the Decoy), or no mana for my opponent's two (if he doesn't).

Both spells are one spellbook point as well for the Wizard.

If the Jinx sticks, my opponent's next quick spell is cancelled, which might disrupt his plans. The cost to me if it sticks is one action and two mana (counting Arcane Ring discount when it eventually is revealed)... but in this case, it is a loss of two mana compared with my opponent since he gets his mana back when his spell is cancelled... so the trade-off is the two mana plus Jinx spellbook point spent for me against slightly modifying my opponent's actions (change in spells cast, or possibly preventing my opponent from doing what he is hoping to do).

What might my opponent be planning to do? One example might be that he might have his own Decoy and a Curse / Poison enchantment that he wants to stick to my Mage. He generally won't be able to get his Decoy spell off, leaving the Nullify on my Wizard to counter the enchantment spell if he still chooses to cast it.

And if that "Nullify" that he saw me enchant may Mage with just after he popped another of my Nullifies was a Decoy instead... maybe he casts it on another target instead, which probably hurts me less. And... maybe I switch things up and *do* use a Decoy instead of a Jinx, just to keep my opponent guessing.

Note: This isn't as good if the opponent had Huginn in range to see what it was that was stuck on his Mage.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 02:09:34 PM by DaveW »
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