January 21, 2022, 01:36:10 PM

Author Topic: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric  (Read 3938 times)

CobaltGray

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« on: March 28, 2014, 05:13:39 AM »
Morning all,
I know [mwcard=MW1I02] Battle Fury [/mwcard] gets a lot of attention on here. A situation came up last night at the club that we had to make a decision on until we knew the rules. I've trawled through the forum, FAQ and Errata and I think Ive pieced together the solution but could I get a quick sanity check from someone that we are playing this correctly please. (I'm hoping it will help others as well as Battle Fury seems to be a common source of confusion).

So my Warlock and Warren's Force Master are slogging it out in a central zone. I am down to my last 2 life and he has 8 left. Its my turn and my initiative and if I don't kill him he's going to kill me. Fortunately Im fully tooled up with [mwcard=MW1Q14] Lash of Hellfire [/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1Q11] Gauntlets of Strength [/mwcard] and [mwcard=MW1Q10] Fireshaper Ring [/mwcard] giving me 7 attack dice.

For my turn I forgo my First Quickcast Phase and he attacks me with a [mwcard=FWA02] Force Hammer[/mwcard]. This could be it and the crowds are expecting a Warlock size splat in the middle of the arena. Fortunately last turn I cast [mwcard=MW1E02] Block [/mwcard] with my last two mana so the Enchantment is revealed and the attack is avoided.

For my turn I reveal [mwcard=MW1E40] Vampirism [/mwcard] and [mwcard=MW1E01] Bear Strength [/mwcard] (placed on me in an earlier round) and then first Quickcast [mwcard=MW1I02] Battle Fury [/mwcard] then I attack him with my Lash of Hellfire. But he has Deflect ready. If I don't kill him I need the life from Vampirism to survive his next attack.

SO this is how we played it out (actually its not exactly as we played it but we made sensible guesses that lead to the same conclusion. I've added here the stuff I've found out from previous forum posts). Is this correct ?

  1. I declare the attack
  2. He gets a chance to 'Deflect' the attack. But Battle Fury is on me so he can elect to defend my second attack if he wants. But not both as Deflect can only be used 'once per round'. He elects to defend my first attack.
  3. He rolls the Defence dice. He needs 7+ but as he has a [mwcard=FWQ02] Defense Ring [/mwcard] he gets to add 1 to his defence roll. He rolls a 5 (making 6 defence) and fails the defence roll. The Deflect is now flipped over and cannot be used again this turn.
  4. I attack him with 9 attack dice (7 + 2 from Bear Strength, oh and the effect dice for a chance to burn him). I do 7 damage leaving him with 1 left.
  5. My Vampiric trait comes into effect and I gain 7/2 rounded up = 4 life back. Making my life 6. (phew)
  6. Battle Fury is not like Double (or Triple) Strike and makes its additional strike at 'Step 8. Attack Ends' in the 'Making an attack' table. If Warren had a counterstrike or Damage Barrier option available to him he would have been able to action it between my first and second Battle Fury attack. He would now need 6 to kill me as Vampiric worked on my first attack. Fortunately he didn't have a counterstrike.
  7. During the '8. Attack Ends' phase I make my final Battle Fury attack. I can no longer use my Melee+1 traits for this attack so I roll 4 Attack dice and 1 effect dice for lash of hellfire (losing +1 for Warlock, +1 for Gauntlets of Strength, +2 for Bear Strength and +1 for Fireshaper Ring.)
  8. I roll a 1. He dies ! Crowd starts booing as everyone hates the evil Warlock (Mwahahahahaha). I put on Dark glasses to ease my mana-induced headache and limp cooly out of the Arena crackling and sparking with with the painful remnants of Mind-school spell energy.  8)





YoungDave

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 05:32:03 AM »
Good morning Darren,

You have done an excellent job of writing up last night's last round turn against Warren.  I've got to say I was aghast when a couple of lads in your "crowd" came over and grabbed me - and asked if I could make a ruling on the whole issue!  Hey, I might have been playing the game longer than just about anyone else at the club (bar good old Joe!) but it's still been only 2 months!

So I also eagerly await some replies from those battle-hardened mages who have a tad more experience than us in sunny Huntingdon!

Oh - and I'm leaving shortly for an ENTIRE weekend's gaming.

Cheers guys.

Dave I

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 07:35:39 AM »
Everything you've written is 100% correct.

I'm not certain if you're wanting more commentary than that, but I don't feel more is needed unless you actually desire it. You seem to have a solid grasp on everything involved.

CobaltGray

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 07:44:37 AM »
Thanks Zuberi - Just needed a sanity check - took me about 2 hours this morning to pull the info together from the forum and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything (and that others might find it in one place).
We were unsure about a) whether melee +'s carry onto the Battle Fury; b) Defence's can only be applied to first BF attack. The wording on BF that confused me was "The extra attack counts as the same attack action". I think we were reading too much into this and, now I understand the terminology better, I was probably thinking this meant  "The extra attack counts as the same attack step" (within the attack action).

Good to know Im on the right track (Im still a bit of a newbie)

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 08:17:09 AM »
Question A: Regarding Melee +X, when you make multiple attacks with the same attack action you only get the bonus on the first attack that could be made with the bonus. This is detailed very well in the FAQ on pages 4 and 5. This applies to Battle Fury as well as Sweeping, Double Strike, Triple Strike, and any other effect or ability that allows you to make multiple attacks in a single attack action.

This can cause confusion if you are looking at old material, because the original ruling on Battle Fury was that it counted as a completely new attack action separate from the first. Which of course allowed it to utilize Melee +X on both attacks. This is no longer the case however.

Now, I should also address the caveat in the rule which says Melee +X applies to the first attack that could be made with the bonus. This caveat can be misleading. Basically it means the first attack made where the bonus exists. It does not mean the first attack that is successful. If your opponent managed to avoid your first attack with a successful Deflect roll, you would not be able to apply the Melee +X bonuses to the second attack. The first attack could have applied the bonuses, it just failed to deliver. The reason the caveat exists is because there are situations where you could gain additional bonuses in between the time you made the first attack and the time you make the second attack. The Rage ability on the [mwcard=MW1C25]Mountain Gorilla[/mwcard] springs to mind. Or perhaps just waiting till the second attack to reveal Bear Strength.

Addendum: I think it might also be important that the above statements also apply to vampirism and several other traits.

Question B: You can not use more than one Defense against a single attack. You can find this in the English Rulebook v3.0 on page 24. This rule is not referencing attack actions, but rather individual swings of the sword. Therefore, it is okay for them to make a Defense roll against each attack in a Double Strike, or both attacks made while buffed with Battle Fury, etc.

Deflect, however, is only useable once. Your opponent could have chosen to save it for the second attack if they had wished, but they could not have used it against both attacks. If they had had an additional defense from another source, though, they could have used it.

Laddinfance

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 4646
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 08:25:43 AM »
And I was going to be super helpful and make sure things were all clarified, but Zuberi has swooped in and made things quite clear.

Enjoy your banana sticker.

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 08:35:15 AM »
mmm, nom nom nom.

Is it wrong that the desire for a sticker was the main impetus for my second reply? lol. I wasn't sure if he actually needed further clarification or not. As he stated, he's clearly on the right track. But it's been awhile since I've gotten a delicious banana sticker and I needed my fix >_<


Hello, my name is Zuberi and I'm addicted to Banana Stickers.

CobaltGray

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 08:42:29 AM »
Hahaha The sticker was well earned Zuberi - I didn't realise that I could have revealed Bear Strength between my first and second attacks of Battle Fury This would have been a better strategy as i would have gambled that my opponent would have used his deflect on the first attack. Thats a neat idea.

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 08:50:34 AM »
You can reveal enchantments in between any steps or phases. Thus, you could have revealed it in between Step 2: Avoid Attack, and Step 3: Roll Dice. This means if he had chosen to save his Deflect for later and not use it on your first attack, you could have decided to go ahead and use Bear Strength on the first attack after all. Otherwise, you could have saved it for the second.

I try to reveal my enchantments at the last possible moment. The less info my opponent has, the better. Just got to make sure you remember it before it's too late. As soon as those dice are rolled, it is too late for Bear Strength to affect that roll (unless you have a very forgiving opponent of course, lol).

Shad0w

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2934
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Fury+Defence +Vampiric
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 02:00:13 PM »
You can reveal enchantments in between any steps or phases. Thus, you could have revealed it in between Step 2: Avoid Attack, and Step 3: Roll Dice. This means if he had chosen to save his Deflect for later and not use it on your first attack, you could have decided to go ahead and use Bear Strength on the first attack after all. Otherwise, you could have saved it for the second.

I try to reveal my enchantments at the last possible moment. The less info my opponent has, the better. Just got to make sure you remember it before it's too late. As soon as those dice are rolled, it is too late for Bear Strength to affect that roll (unless you have a very forgiving opponent of course, lol).

This has tactical implication.

What if I was attacking a target with fire +2 on it and a defense.

I have 3 hidden I declare the attack with melee 5d They decide not to defend.
Before dice step I reveal Bear Strength and an enchant that give melee attack the fire trait.

You will roll 9d and they could no longer defend since it already passed
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage