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Author Topic: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions  (Read 17578 times)

jacksmack

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2014, 01:38:29 AM »
13)Akiro's Favor: Can I reveal this after I make the roll which I'd like to reroll? I'm guessing no. The reroll effect happens at the end of the roll dice step and makes you redo the roll dice step?  With this card and temple of the dawnbreaker, I'm guessing people choose at the end of any roll dice step whether to reroll in order of initiative.

Im curious about this as well.

Shad0w

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2014, 03:49:47 PM »
At the convention center WiFi is only so so can you get me wording on please :-[ :P




Stupid auto correct
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 09:11:25 PM by Shad0w »
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sIKE

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2014, 04:39:14 PM »
Since the card has no additional requirements (like Mind Control) you would follow normal Enchantment reveal rules.  So, I think that this would be legal as long as you have not applied damage to the creature in question from the dice roll.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2014, 04:47:13 PM »
13)Akiro's Favor: Can I reveal this after I make the roll which I'd like to reroll? I'm guessing no. The reroll effect happens at the end of the roll dice step and makes you redo the roll dice step?  With this card and temple of the dawnbreaker, I'm guessing people choose at the end of any roll dice step whether to reroll in order of initiative.

Im curious about this as well.

The rulebook states you can reveal an enchantment "At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell."

So I would think you can reveal it after step 3, which is the roll dice step, and before you apply the damage/effects, which is in step 4.
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echephron

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2014, 12:31:35 AM »
13)Akiro's Favor
I agree Lord0fWinter that you can reveal it just after the roll dice step, but my guess is that you cant reroll dice outside of the roll dice step, so revealing just after the roll dice step is too late. The problem is that I dont know 100% where is the steps that rerolling happens. I hear a new rules and codex supplement in enroute for next week.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:41:50 AM by echephron »
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sIKE

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2014, 12:45:20 AM »
13)Akiro's Favor
I agree Lord0fWinter that you can reveal it just after the roll dice step, but m guess is that you cant reroll dice outside of the roll dice step, so revealing just after the roll dice step is too late. The problem is that I dont know 100% where is the steps that rerolling happens. I hear a new rules and codex supplement in enroute for next week.
Not to be a smart-aleck but it would still be in step 3, after you have applied damage and effects you would not be able to change the outcome. The Temple has worked this way since release, I see no reason why Akiro's Favor would be any different, other than it being an Enchantment. The main difference of course is it being revealed after the dice roll of step 3. I think this is what causes the most head scratching, with an Enchantment it is possible to reveal it after one thing happens (the dice roll) and before the step that typically follows it happens (apply damage/effects) thereby interrupting (re-rolling dice) what would flow normally.

I could be wrong though.....
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jacksmack

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2014, 04:12:11 AM »
Im pretty sure its not possible.

Assuming Akiro's favor is face down:
By the time you realize you rolled bad and wish to re-roll you will not be able to reveal this card before the dice roll step is over - The first chance to reveal would be between the dice roll step and apply damage step.


Which is sad for Akiro. Not so much because of the 1 mana you have to reveal, but more because of the facedown enchantment is now revealed to your opponent.


Kharhaz

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2014, 07:07:20 AM »
At the convention center WiFi is only so so can you get me e wordind on favor please :-[ :P

Akiro's Favor:

" Once per round, if this creature makes a melee or ranged attack, you may re-roll all of the attack dice, or the effect dice, for that attack. Or, if the attack has to roll to hit (such as with a Daze condition), you may re-roll that die roll instead. Use a ready marker to keep track of this ability."

I think this is what causes the most head scratching, with an Enchantment it is possible to reveal it after one thing happens (the dice roll) and before the step that typically follows it happens (apply damage/effects) thereby interrupting (re-rolling dice) what would flow normally.

I could be wrong though.....

Yes you can reveal between the dice roll and apply damage/effects. That is usually where you use healing charm to snatch victory from the opponents grasp. ;) More specifically: "At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell."

So in order to use Akiro's Favor the enchanted creature has to make an attack or make a roll to hit. All eight of the steps are "making an attack" so anytime during this action qualifies for the first and second ability.


By the time you realize you rolled bad and wish to re-roll you will not be able to reveal this card before the dice roll step is over - The first chance to reveal would be between the dice roll step and apply damage step.


What happens here is you reveal Akiro's Favor between step 3 and step 4. That allows you to re-roll either the attack or effect dice, but before they are calculated in step 4. The only thing that is required to use Akiro's Favor is that the creature makes an attack, which it is doing.

If it said, " Once per round, if this creature declares a melee or ranged attack........" then you could not reveal after the roll and still use the ability.

Furthermore, "if this creatures makes a melee attack or ranged attack...." applies if the creature only makes one attack that round as well. It does not need to complete the attack action to "activate" Akiro's Favor.

So the simple version is that yes you can reveal after the attack roll, but before damage and effect is applied to the target.

Lets hope that makes sense without the morning coffee.......

jacksmack

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2014, 08:11:03 AM »
It does not make sense. Is this the official ruling?


Basicly what your saying is:

Attack Order:

1: Declare Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

2: Avoid Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

3: Roll dice

- Revealing Akiro -

3: Repeat step 3: Roll dice

- option to reveal enchantments -

4: Damage and Effects


No where in the rules does it say that a step in the attack order or spell casting order can be repeated once its finished. If what your saying is correct, then this has to be added to the FAQ.

Kharhaz

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2014, 08:22:24 AM »
It does not make sense. Is this the official ruling?


Basicly what your saying is:

Attack Order:

1: Declare Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

2: Avoid Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

3: Roll dice

- Revealing Akiro -

3: Repeat step 3: Roll dice

- option to reveal enchantments -

4: Damage and Effects

- option to reveal enchantments -


What happens is that you never "repeat step 3"

Step 3 does not end because you re roll the attack in step 3 before you ever get to step 4. Once step 4 begins you can not go back and re roll.

So it looks like this:

Step 3
- Roll
- Reveal Akiro's Favor
- Activate Akiro's Favor
- Re roll

Step 4
-

jacksmack

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 08:27:48 AM »
your not allowed to reveal the enchantment during step 3.


At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or
three steps of casting a spell.
Example: After the Avoid Attack Step of an attack,
you could reveal the Rhino Hide enchantment on
your creature to reduce the amount of damage it
will take from that attack
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 08:29:33 AM by jacksmack »

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 08:40:46 AM »
jacksmack is right, you can't reveal during an event. Either Akiro's Favor lets you repeat step 3, which is awkward, or the latest you can reveal it to get its effects is after step 2.

sIKE

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2014, 09:12:40 AM »
Here hope this helps:

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=5986.msg5992#msg5992

I knew I had read this ruling somewhere else before.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2014, 10:08:08 AM »
jacksmack is right, you can't reveal during an event. Either Akiro's Favor lets you repeat step 3, which is awkward, or the latest you can reveal it to get its effects is after step 2.

You are not repeating step 3.

you make an attack roll.

At the end of step 3 you reveal Akiro's Favor (just like the Rhino Hide example)

Akiro's Favor goes into effect immediately (still before step 4)

You can then activate that ability and re-roll the attack. It is not repeating step 3, you are simply re-rolling either the attack roll or effect roll.

Example that better illustrates the Akiro's Favor example.

Sir Corazin (with a hidden Akiro's Favor) uses his quick melee attack against a Timber Wolf (with a hidden Rhino Hide and Bull Endurance)

Sir Corazin rolls 4 dice and gets blank - 1 normal - 1 normal - 2 normal

Before that damage is applied in step 4 the Timber Wolf reveals Rhino Hide.

Still before step 4 Sir Corazin Reveals Akiro's favor, and re-rolls his attack and now has - blank - 2 critcal - 1 critical - blank

Still before step 4, Timber wolf decides to reveal Bull Endurance.

Damage applies as per normal in step 4

jacksmack

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Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2014, 12:54:39 PM »
So what your saying is... Akiro's favor allows you to re-roll attack dice outside of the attack step?

I guess that makes sense, like you can roll dice for healing between steps with healing charm.