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Author Topic: Johktari Weapon  (Read 15825 times)

payprplayn

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Johktari Weapon
« on: July 08, 2014, 03:16:58 PM »
I've seen a lot of people saying the JBM needs a quick action ranged weapon.  I suspect the fear is that move-shoot might be OP when it's combined with fast and costs no mana. I've been thinking about this and have a solution of sorts to propose.  It's not a fleshed-out card because I think it would take a fair amount of playtesting to determine the appropriate mana cost/ damage dice/ effects (though I think poison would be flavorful).  Basically what matters is its mechanic.  I'm thinking a crossbow or blowgun idea, nature mage only, that works kind of like a war machine.  It comes into play loaded and becomes unloaded when it's attack is used.  Once per round the mage may pay 2 mana OR spend a quick action to load it.  This could be tracked with a load token (like war machines) or simply a ready marker, since it only has two states (loaded/unloaded).  Basically the idea is it's quick to fire, but she has to either spend time reloading it or infuse it with magical energy to make it "grow" new amunition.  Thoughts?
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sIKE

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 04:18:56 PM »
This is an interesting thought, make her use her quick cast action to load the weapon with a small mana cost, she could then move and shoot. Once again the damage would have to be very small, I would think: [Ranged:1-2][2] with range reducing die by one. They way the stack wouldn't get large and that would be all she could do during each of her Action Phase, and yes I would make it a Load Token to make it consistent.
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payprplayn

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 04:58:30 PM »
I was actually thinking it would be a free action to reload if she paid the mana, or she could take a quick action to reload for no mana.  It wouldn't be a quick spell though, so she couldn't do it with her quickcast.  Basically she could shoot every other round if she didn't use her action for something else and didn't spend mana.  If she spent the mana, she could shoot every round, but even though it has a mana cost (to reload) the attack still wouldn't be a spell, so she could only fire during her main action, but could take advantage of her ranged+1 trait.  I don't think you actually would have to nerf it too hard beyond this, honestly, I think the standard 4 dice would be fine, although I was thinking it might be neat to give it fewer dice, but a decent chance at a poison effect, maybe 2 dice + d12: 8+=rot, or 0 dice (she'd actually roll one) and d12:6+= tainted.  Like I say, some playtesting would be needed to balance this, so I mostly was interested in pitching the reloading mechanic.

Edit: I'm not married to the 2 mana price tag either, but I think it's important that she have the option shoot every round if she pays for it.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 05:12:07 PM by payprplayn »
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Boocheck

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2014, 05:49:42 AM »
Or some weapon with skirmish trait. I like the blowgun idea! I am not sure how it will fit thematically into savanah but some african tribe must also use blow guns.
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flamespeak

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2014, 12:13:29 AM »
I fail to see why she can't move and shoot in one turn with a decent bow, especially considering the Lash of Hellfire basically offers the same thing and can be quite overpowered basically right out the gate.

sIKE

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2014, 01:08:16 AM »
I fail to see why she can't move and shoot in one turn with a decent bow, especially considering the Lash of Hellfire basically offers the same thing and can be quite overpowered basically right out the gate.
Add in Fast and she can cover any zone on the board each round....
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flamespeak

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2014, 03:01:27 AM »
Yes, and forgo summoning a creature, it can be destroyed with dissolve, and there are plenty of ways to minimalize the effects of it. It wouldn't be game breaking at all. Heck, a Warlock with Lash of Hellfire enchanted with the fast trait offer is just as 'game breaking' but it is something I have to shut down every other game because I have a friend who loves to play the Warlock. It would go a long way to improve the Joh Beast Master because when it comes to mobs she is drastically inferior to the original Beast Master with his quick summoning ability and it would play to her strengths a lot more.

sIKE

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2014, 08:44:57 AM »
No it would not be any where near the same. The Warlock would be able to move two zones and only attack in that zone. She would be able to move two zones and attack two zones further away. She could avoid Hindering zones and still lay down an attack or move two zones away from danger and attack that danger.
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aquestrion

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 09:28:31 AM »
Why not make a quiver for the cloak slot that allows her to make a full action ranged attack from her bow weapon into a quick action attack but as a downside either reduce the range of that attack or reduce the dice rolls by half and the effect rolls are reduced also maybe by three

klaymen

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 10:48:40 AM »
I like the quiver idea. In fact, the quiver could become a keyword with such properties (less range, or penalty for the effect die or whatever) and AW could create several quivers adding further traits or effects to the attack. Quiver of poison arrows would add Rot condition, burning arrows can add burn and so on. Though to somehow balance the added benefit, they could come with further penalties, like -1 attack die or somewthing.

ringkichard

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2014, 11:13:36 AM »
The interesting thing to me about this thread are the people confidently telling sIKE they know it would be fine, without having tried it for themselves.

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flamespeak

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2014, 11:53:49 PM »
You mean like equipping any mage with an elemental wand with a low cost spell and enchanting them to be fast? The argument that sIKE is making is something that I have encountered numerous times.

My buddy's opening moves are usually equipping his warlock with a lash of hellfire, and an elemental wand. Next turn is the ring that boosts his fire attacks (whose name escapes me) and cheetah speed, third round is him slapping on bear strength as a quick spell. You now have a mage that is running around dealing 8 dice of damage in melee combat or 7 attack die of damage for five mana each turn with no real way to get away from him. Plus all those burn markers that are a pain in the ass to remove with the new FiF cards that can be exploded all over your face.

Except by summoning up something bigger as a decoy or that is fire proof, dissolving his euqipment, disenchanting him, or a plethora of other options that are easily agains a powered up Joh Beast master.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 11:58:26 PM by flamespeak »

jacksmack

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 03:08:06 AM »
You now have a mage that is running around dealing 8 dice of damage in melee combat or 7 attack die of damage for five mana each turn with no real way to get away from him.

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sIKE

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2014, 08:20:19 AM »
You mean like equipping any mage with an elemental wand with a low cost spell and enchanting them to be fast? The argument that sIKE is making is something that I have encountered numerous times.

My buddy's opening moves are usually equipping his warlock with a lash of hellfire, and an elemental wand. Next turn is the ring that boosts his fire attacks (whose name escapes me) and cheetah speed, third round is him slapping on bear strength as a quick spell. You now have a mage that is running around dealing 8 dice of damage in melee combat or 7 attack die of damage for five mana each turn with no real way to get away from him. Plus all those burn markers that are a pain in the ass to remove with the new FiF cards that can be exploded all over your face.

Except by summoning up something bigger as a decoy or that is fire proof, dissolving his euqipment, disenchanting him, or a plethora of other options that are easily agains a powered up Joh Beast master.

I then equip Leather Boots and Gloves, Dragonscale Hauberk, and Elemental Cloak and then a Reverse Magic. I then go to Dissolve the Wand and the Lash hoping that the Reverse Magic takes care of one for me. He either be casting Buff spells and attacking or playing defensive spells he only has enough actions and mana for one or the other. All the while I can work my defense to negate his advantage.

A bow and Hawkeye are two actions with a double move first round. I can't get rid of the Fast and she is then casting Armor and shooting. Sure I can start equipping up, but it is very difficult (the BM player has to make a mistake) to get the tempo back...
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aquestrion

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 12:31:19 AM »
You could make her slow which would get rid of the fast....enfeeble I believe is the card